Author Topic: Plans for the Combat Theater (Read 4709 times)

Toad · « **Reply #45 on:** December 19, 2001, 03:57:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair:
Toad, the stuff about the icons radar being "manly' is usually just friendly banter when it does appear, which is rare anyway. Something not to be taken seriously by guys like you and me.

I understand that HB. You understand that.

Now we'll find out how many of the "soup stirrers" understand that.

All the icon & radar stuff is merely "difficulty level" stuff, with very little if anything to do with <cough> "realism".

Some people have gotten pretty good at this game and want to turn up the "difficulty level" beyond what would be normal <cough> "realism".

For the New Guys that's not too sporting, eh wot old chum? You might say it's a "Quake-like" reaction to gaining proficiency at the "normal" level, might you not? Then who would be the "Quake-ers"?

I guess we'll see how many understand that as well.

As I said, I'll try it out. But I won't be part of anything that divides the player group, even if it's just the "unwashed" that start dividing the group. Just my .02.

Sabre · « **Reply #46 on:** December 19, 2001, 04:30:00 PM »

Popeye, I appreciate the point you're making, and want to expand on the reasoning behind the radar settings planned for the CT. Forgive me in advance if this sounds a bit like a lecture

. You are both right and wrong regarding the strategic and tactical importance of radar in WWII. Strategically, in some theatres it had a huge impact, while in others it played almost no role (or only played a significant role for one side or the other). Tactically, it was used to point interceptors at the general vicinity of the enemy formations, but could not (even over friendly territory) provide the type of attack vectoring we've come to know in modern aerial warfare. Very often, there were rules followed by the air defense control centers that formations under a certain estimated size were ignored completely, with no vectoring of interceptors and only (rarely) warning calls to friendly aircraft to "be on the look out" for enemy aircraft. All detection, tracking, and control was done manually, and the shear size of the areas to be defended and the huge volume of air traffic (especially near the FEBA) guaranteed that the air defense networks were marginally effective at best. The thing is, marginally effective can mean the difference between victory and defeat.

The other thing to consider, and an aspect lacking in our simulated environment, is the near constant effort to destroy or otherwise render ineffective those very same air defense networks; everything from jamming to direct attack was undertaken to increase the enemy's fog and friction of war.

What all this leads to is the decision to go with the in-flight bar-dar, with limited range and an altitude floor, to simulate the average effectiveness of radar warning and control networks in WWII. As an aside, it reflects what a majority of people seemed to be asking for as a compromise between the AWACS-dar and the "icons are for sissies" mindset. As we go on, this and other aspects of the CT set up will undergo constant scrutiny and review. The comments of players such as your self will be measured against the final yardstick of CT population, and adjustments made if warranted. Hope that helps to further clarify our reasoning on this.

Wotan · « **Reply #47 on:** December 19, 2001, 05:17:00 PM »

my only input to all this is that once you guys come up with a plan we all know every other person who posts here will have his idea about "how to make it better"

Hopefully the ct cms have heard all of us but once you guys make a descision about icons, planesets whatever please stick with your plan. Do not make a bunch of small tweaks each designed to accomodate some other guys point of view.

Now I agree that some tweaking and testing will be necessary but do it in lumps not "well today we add a 38", "tomorrow a g6", then "turn icons on today", "no dar tomorrow".

I also agree with toad and in that any open hostility toward the "main" folks and "ct" folks oughta be discouraged.

These arenas in every other game are never packed and usually only a handful of guys fly them regularly.

Regardless of whatever tweaking is done.

That said there should never be night time in the ct. Night Sux

Aiswulf · « **Reply #48 on:** December 19, 2001, 05:41:00 PM »

Quote

That said there should never be night time in the ct. Night Sux

*looking through index cards for my wussies speach*

j/k

Steven · « **Reply #49 on:** December 19, 2001, 07:00:00 PM »

I like the sound of this. However, I'm not sure I'll be here or not on Saturday. I'm off with the family out of town for a week. Hopefully we are leaving Sunday and not Saturday (you can tell who is the boss around here, huh?) Anyway, point I'm trying to get at is it's way cool, but you may have low numbers at first because of it starting right at the very end of the holiday season.

~Pyroman~ · « **Reply #50 on:** December 20, 2001, 06:58:00 AM »

Hblair,

Do I have to sign up the Nightmares in Advance for this or do we just show up? I'm going to the Hitech site now to look.

Great idea bro and the Nightmares are very interested.

hblair · « **Reply #51 on:** December 20, 2001, 07:14:00 AM »

Pyroman, this is a 24/7 arena that will run with the above planeset for two weeeks, then another for two weeks, etc. Come and go at your convenience.

Oldman731 · « **Reply #52 on:** December 20, 2001, 08:05:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair:
[QB]Saturday marks the beginning of a new series of historical and quazi-historical setups that the CT staff will be running in that arena over two week periods.

Heard about this on Bigweek. Way to go, folks. I'll be there.

- Oldman

Tac · « **Reply #53 on:** December 20, 2001, 01:56:00 PM »

I'll be HO'ing your sorry tulips with 4X20mm hizookas till it becomes clear that the other alternative is better

J_A_B · « **Reply #54 on:** December 20, 2001, 03:05:00 PM »

"I'll be HO'ing your sorry tulips with 4X20mm hizookas till it becomes clear that the other alternative is better "

And you'll be doing it in a plane that's 20 MPH faster than anything the Germans have

J_A_B

Tac · « **Reply #55 on:** December 20, 2001, 09:29:00 PM »

yes, and at 1/3rd their zoom rate.

Ill play chicken. cluck cluck!

Wlfgng · « **Reply #56 on:** December 21, 2001, 12:06:00 PM »

sigh.. too bad the G-10 came out so friggin' late.. or IT would balance out the pony threat

Pollock · « **Reply #57 on:** December 21, 2001, 12:22:00 PM »

horray horray yippeee

Tac · « **Reply #58 on:** December 23, 2001, 12:36:00 PM »

Well, the LW actually has it in the bellybutton in the CT. They face an overwhelming variety of AC that fight with different ACM styles. Mainly, the LW being almost purely B&Z (xcept 109f4 which can turn a little bit), vs allies which have 3 better hi-speed B&Z planes (P47d11, P5b, tiffie) and access to a horde of T&B planes (hurricane, seafire) & planes which are almost T&B and B&Z hybrids, the Mossie,f4u-1 and the spitV/IX
So, allies face constantly E-fighting B&Z while LW face everything else. Not to mention the disparity on bombers and jabo, where the allies have a highly survivable turbolaser packin' B-26 vs the paint scratching Balsa wood Ju88. Thank god the icons are short for the buff gunners too.

Jabo leaves the LW with only 1X 190 mod that carry more than 1 bomb of ord and the rest are just 1-bomb lobbing 109's and 190's.. and leaves them low alt facing spits and hurricanes (where they really dont stand a chance vs them).

Allies have the 51b (2X 500lb bombs + 6 rockets), mossie (2X500lb + 8 rockets or 4 X500lbs), hurricane (2X1k) , spitIX (2X250kg 1X500lb bomb) and the typhoon (2X1k or 8 rockets).

In essence,

Allies=Superiority in high speed handling craft B&Z , vast superiority in low alt T&B, dominance in Jabo/bombing. Carrier plane capability.

LW= Leather seats, better beer, stout sheep, better climb rate (109s), more cannon packin' (190's), slight superiority as long as they stay higher than the rest.

I would say they should add the 205 and 202 to the LW arsenals and put the mossie in lieu of the bf110 to give LW some Jabo ability. I would also remove the Flaktank and Panzer from the choices of the allies, dont they have m16 and the m8? Besides, if a panzer is near, so will a tiffie or hurricane be...very quickly.

Been enjoying the CT as it is now, 109f4 much fun, but it wont be fun once it starts getting more numbers.. and the allies start swatting fields left and right because they got the planes and the ord to dominate both speed fights and turn fights

As rude would say, A WHINE HAS BEEN RECORDED.

("LW I feel your pain!" )

The above was edited from another post. Forgot to put it here. Stupid me.

********
And of course, I still think the 38 should be there instead of the 51B. 38 cant overpower the german planeset in the way the bpony can, but thats just my opinion.

Having a blast flying the 109f4... and not seeing a SINGLE damn n1k or la7 in sight! What a relief!!!

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: Tac ]

Wingnut_0 · « **Reply #59 on:** December 23, 2001, 12:48:00 PM »

"Solution: Give the mossie to the germans too. It would be representing the Me110 jabo mode."

Oh please no. Nothing would take my steam out faster than plane substitions like Tac suggested.