Guns in AH and real life

[Citabria]

I'd prefer te guns to be left as is.

no one wants the fiddling fiasco hotseat created over at WB to happen here.


currently 30mm is deadly
20mm both types are lethal.
50 cal if you hit enough it gets you results you want.
30 cal rightfully sucks  

[Pongo]

Well I would prefer that they assess if the HS is really more leathal then the other 20mm to the extent it is in the game.
The statement that there are parts of the AC not modeled that are suseptible to AP implies that they would only be suseptible to HS 20mm other wise its a non issue for our discussion.  Are there any parts of any of these planes that are proof against any 20mm ap round.....(except the soon to be introduced mgFF)
I dont think so. So giving the HS a fudge factor vs Aircraft based on its kinetic energy advantage is a suspect decision.
But I believe that you have stated the opinion of HTC to a tee.
I dont want the guns fuktuating weekly either. But I will suport any thread that questions the HS and question any thread that defends it. Until I see some account that supports the capabilities in the game.

[funked]

Pongo I think you meant fluctuating, but fuktuating accurately describes the Warbirds gunnery follies.  

[Pongo]

oopss. bad fingers

[bloom25]

I haven't had the time to read this whole thread, so I won't make any comments about it.  What I wanted to ask is if any of you have seen the "visual aid" pyro posted a while back showing the actual rounds fired?  The Hispano round looks absolutely massive compared to the Mg151/20.  It is at least a full 25% larger.  Same thing goes for the 50 cal vs 13mm mg131.

I also thought I'd share a little story here about what happened to me last night.  I was flying a heavy p38 to bomb a7.  A 190 dove down to attack a bomber near me, so I dropped my bombs and rockets right there and dove on him.  He was moving much faster than I was, so after landing a few 50 cal pings from 500 yds, he rapidly extended to 1k.  To my surprise though I could still ping him with the 50 cal.  (The Hispano could not shoot that far.)  Since it was the only con in the area, I just kept firing 50 rds in bursts and landing 3 or 4 pings on the 190.  All at ranges between 950 yds to 1.1k.  After firing 1500 rds (yep, LOL, what a waste of ammo   ) ,he lost a wingtip.  I was then able to close in on him and finish him off.  My gunnery percentage went down a full 3.5% as a result of this sortie, but I did get the kill.  I should have filmed it, but I'm sure others can attest to being able to hit at 1k with the 50s.  Although I do think hits at that range are improbable at best; I was happy to see that it took well over 100 hits at that range to even knock off the 190s wingtip.



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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[StSanta]

Yep bloom, the .50's are amazing.

They do not require that many rounds from 700-900yds though.



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StSanta
II/JG2

[-lazs-]

pongo, all 151 rounds are lighter and lower velocity than HS rounds.   HE rounds killed by structual damage and were not very effective against armor.   The HS AP round has a better balistic coefficent along with it's higher energy than the 151 AP round and the Browning fifty has a better BC than either but less energy than either.  
lazs

[Pongo]

He He ..
What purpose does all that extra velocity and kinetic energy serve against lightly built and armoured aircraft..It is great against tanks and ships and locomotives. It is wasted against aircraft.
How many times do you think those wimpy 151/20rds bouced off of a p51?????
THEY USED CHEMICAL ENERGY(EXPLOSION-FRAGMENTATION) TO KILL!!!!
All of the 20mm here have more then enough penetration to peirce the vitals of any aircraft in the game. Giving the HS extra capability based on that penatration is missleading.

[Hooligan]

Pongo said:

"All of the 20mm here have more then enough penetration to pierce the vitals of any aircraft in the game."

As long as the rounds in question are AP rounds this is largely true with some Caveats.  The MGFF has a pretty low muzzle velocity so I wouldn't count on it being true for that gun.  At short to medium ranges from most angles 151 20mm AP rounds and .50 AP rounds (which have similar penetration capabilities) should be able to penetrate sufficiently.  Hispano rounds penetrate 50% better than this and are probably good at almost any range and angle.  Aside from the penetration issue Mg151 APHE rounds are smaller and carry less explosive than Hispano APHE rounds, so they should do less damage.

Don't count on HE rounds penetrating anything but the aircraft skin.  Fragments from a 20mm HE round penetrate significantly less than a .30 cal round.

Hooligan

[Pongo]

Well. the fragments are generated inside the aircraft so that should not be an issue. Many pilots where saved by the armour behind their backs and heads but they where mostly saved from the fragments.

[-lazs-]

uh... ok
lazs