Sorry State of Affairs!

[Scherf]

Earl, if Ack-Ack says you showed up in a dar ring, you showed up in a dar ring, simple as that.

Especially on the Isles map, where it's easy-peasy to park a cv off the strats, NOE raids to strats just ain't a good idea. Strats are one of the few targets people will scramble to defend, NOE raids are often the only raids people are willing to scramble to intercept ('coz it's so quick and easy) and NOE raids on dar are well, just an open invitation.

The same claims of "mmmzomg Spiez!" were leveled at the Rooks when I was on a couple of days ago. NOE raid to 38 showed up in the dar ring, one Rook said "NOE raid 38" on country, lo and behold there they were, every Rook not currently doing something came up to whack it. No spiez required.

[Randy1]

Radar alt = 65
Sector Coutner Alt = 250

Just to be sure.  Are these altitudes above ground or game sea level?

I can't imagine the NOE showing up on the dar bar if it is 250 above sea level.  Radar yes.  On the NOEs I have been on, someone is always slipping above 65 feet even 100 feet during a turn or the like but I have never seen anyone going much above a 100 feet and no where near the 250 feet dar bar trigger.

I wasn't in on this mission so I can't be judgmental.  I am just trying to understand how they showed up on the dar bar.

[Lusche]

Just to be sure.  Are these altitudes above ground or game sea level?

Ground

[BaldEagl]

I am just trying to understand how they showed up on the dar bar.

They likely didn't.  They probably broke dot dar by flying over 65' in a dar ring and none of them would have known they did it.


Fester, you forgot two of my favorites:

The country channel whine.  This one broadcasts to the largest audience of potential supporters but may be lost among the multitude of other misguided spy and cheater accusations.

The range channel vox whine.  This is truely my favorite and can be combined with the "you didn't give me a check six" whine for added impact.

[Oldman731]

dot dar (which only the opposition could see) would break if you're in an enemy radar ring over 65'.  

I suspect this has much to do with the controversy.

- oldman

[Rich46yo]

Ive flown on a couple of ETs missions where an obvious cheat busted it up in his Typhie, 300' alt outside his radar circle, no base flashing, while we were NOE over water at an angle to a totally silent enemy base or Industrial where even the meth heads dont fly. We showed no Dar "I was watching", flying over water using only the rudder keys. There was no question about it and the player involved had done it before. The last time it happened I got so disgusted I vowed to never fly such a mission again.

Nobody ever got on 200 about it. Ive never seen anyone from that squad get on 200 about anything actually. Not that I read it that much. The problem with these threads is everyone gets huffy thinking they are being accused cause they have legitimatly busted NOE missions before. Most, that get busted, get busted on the square. But a few are so obvious Ray Charles would be able to see it.

I mean what are the odds a guy on the channel would just happen to change sides and just happen be out in the middle of nowhere in a Typhie with no dar or base alert ever showing?

[Randy1]

On more than one occasion our squad has argued over a dar bar that shows up on one member's computer but does not show up on all squad mates computers.

It might be good idea to discuss what turns a dar bar on so we are all on the same page.  Understanding the dar bar is very important on NOEs.

Lusche gave one fact that you have to be above 250 feet above ground.  That would mean a sudden 200 foot drop in terrain below you if you are at 50 feet  before the drop in terrain could set it off.  Over water not much of a problem butt over land that could easily happen if only for a brief moment at 250 MPH and faster.

I do think some gamers in AH would change sides to spoil a NOE for the fun of it but it is hard to know how many OE failures are gamers and how many failed NOEs are lack of FULL understanding of dar bars.

[ImADot]

On more than one occasion our squad has argued over a dar bar that shows up on one member's computer but does not show up on all squad mates computers.

The way it was explained to me, and might be out-of-date now, is you will only see a friendly dar bar if at least two friendly planes are above the arena settings sector counter alt; a single friendly won't let you see the friendly bar. However, an enemy dar bar only takes a single plane to show it.

As far as updating on the map, I think it also depends on when someone joins the arena and where in the radar update cycle they are.

[Lusche]

The way it was explained to me, and might be out-of-date now, is you will only see a friendly dar bar if at least two friendly planes are above the arena settings sector counter alt; a single friendly won't let you see the friendly bar. However, an enemy dar bar only takes a single plane to show it.

No quite. What really happens is that you just can't see your own contribution to the darbar. So if you are the only one in a sector above darbar alt, you won't see one unless a second friendly player is above darbar alt in that sector as well. But if he is alone and above darbar alt in that sector, you will still see the darbar caused by him.


But in this specific case the darbar wasn't the issue. As per AKAK they showed up on DOT dar.
And while it's quite easy to stay below 250' darbar alt over the sea, it's quite difficult to do so in a bomber. Seasoned vets flying alone will pull it off, but in a huge mission with lots of players of mixed quality, you can almost guarantee several of them will break the 65' dot dar intermittently.
65' is really low, and there are lots of detractions when flying in a mission as well...

[Arlo]

Just the technicalities of how the game operates is a learning curve. Earl is eager
and works harder than most to make a difference. Once he completely understands
the ramifications of his experiences he will likely be less frustrated and hopefully just
as willing to participate on the forums.

[Drano]

Another note about the dar rings that I factor in when leading buffs in say FSO. You have to factor in that if you're trying to skirt the ring around a base, that if that base has a town (airfields all have towns) and it's on the side you're trying to skirt it'll extend the base warning coverage a like distance. The town warning is the same as the tower warning usually so if you don't give the ring shown on the map a wider berth on the side the town is on you'll flash only the town but not the base. Any other strat you may have passed also has a prox warning that's the same distance although there's no visible ring rerpresented on the map. Gotta factor that in. I've seen this get messed up more than a few times.

Wasn't there so I don't know what happened. Can't tell ya that spies don't happen because we all know they do. But also having done this long enough I know trying to keep large missions like this on the same page is like herding cats! I'd likely guess somebody screwed it up and either got too high or tripped something somewhere. I'd say if AKAK said ya did, ya likely did.

I'd also guess that most guys flying from place to place will tend to have the clipboard up as I do and---duh--they're looking at it. That's a lot of eyes on the map at any given time. You'd only have to break dar, whether it be dot or bar, for a few seconds and only have one guy on the other side see it and poof--there goes your element of surprise.

[zack1234]

Where was Fester on said NOE?

Was it you who foiled this dastardly raid?

We need a explanation of your actions in this sorry state of affair

Is "Ramifications" nearly a rude word?

[Arlo]

Is "Ramifications" nearly a rude word?

'Nearly' as 'consequences' would be. 

[Changeup]

This thread was going to deliver.  It has failed.  It's a sorority house slumber party pillow fight...but it made 7 pages because there is no other troll thread available to participate in.

Earl?  Why? Why Earl?  

[Arlo]