Author Topic: TBD Devastator  (Read 7119 times)

Offline earl1937

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
TBD Devastator
« on: September 28, 2013, 08:22:57 AM »
 :airplane: The Douglas TBD Devastator was a torpedo bomber of the United States Navy, ordered in 1934, first flying in 1935 and entering service in 1937. At that point, it was the most advanced aircraft flying for the USN and possibly for any navy in the world. However, the fast pace of aircraft development caught up with it, and by the time of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor the TBD was already outdated. It performed well in some early battles, but in the Battle of Midway the Devastators launched against the Japanese fleet were almost totally wiped out. The type was immediately withdrawn from front line service, replaced by the Grumman TBF Avenger.
TBD torpedo bomber!
The XTBD Devastator, which flew for the first time on 15 April 1935, marked a large number of "firsts" for the U.S. Navy. It was the first widely-used carrier-based monoplane as well as the first all-metal naval aircraft, the first with a totally-enclosed cockpit, the first with power-actuated (hydraulically) folding wings; it is fair to say that the TBD was revolutionary. A semi-retractable undercarriage was fitted, with the wheels designed to protrude 10 in (250 mm) below the wings to permit a "wheels-up" landing with only minimal damage. A crew of three was normally carried beneath a large "greenhouse" canopy almost half the length of the aircraft. The pilot sat up front; a rear gunner/radio operator took the rearmost seat, while the bombardier occupied the middle seat. During a bombing run, the bombardier lay prone, sliding into position under the pilot to sight through a window in the bottom of the fuselage, using the Norden Bombsight.
In the early days of the Pacific war, the TBD acquitted itself well during February and March 1942, with TBDs from Enterprise and Yorktown attacking targets in the Marshall and Gilbert Islands, Wake Island and Marcus Island, while TBDs from Yorktown and Lexington struck Japanese shipping off New Guinea on 10 March. In the Battle of the Coral Sea Devastators helped sink the Shōhō on 7 May, but failed to hit the Shōkaku the next day.

Problems were discovered with the Mark 13 torpedo at this point. Many were seen to hit the target yet fail to explode; there was also a tendency to run deeper than the set depth. It took over a year for the problems to be corrected. These problems were not fixed by the time of the Battle of Midway on 4 June 1942.

At Midway, a total of 41 Devastators, a majority of the type still operational, were launched from Hornet, Enterprise and Yorktown to attack the Japanese fleet. The sorties were not well coordinated, in part because Rear Admiral Raymond A. Spruance ordered a strike on the enemy carriers immediately after they were discovered, rather than spending time assembling a well-coordinated attack involving the different types of aircraft - fighters, bombers, torpedo planes - reasoning that attacking the Japanese would prevent a counterstrike against the US carriers. The TBDs from Hornet and Enterprise lost contact with their fighter escort and started their attacks without fighter protection.

The Devastator proved to be a death trap for its crews: slow and scarcely maneuverable, with light defensive weaponry and poor armor relative to the weapons of the time; its speed on a glide-bombing approach was a mere 200 mph (320 km/h), making it easy prey for fighters and defensive guns alike. The aerial torpedo could not even be released at speeds above 115 mph (185 km/h). Torpedo delivery requires a long, straight-line attack run, making the aircraft vulnerable, and the slow speed of the aircraft made them easy targets for the Mitsubishi A6M Zeros. Only four TBDs made it back to Enterprise, none to Hornet and two to Yorktown, without scoring a torpedo hit.

Nonetheless, their sacrifice was not completely in vain, as several TBDs managed to get within a few ship-lengths range of their targets before dropping their torpedoes, being close enough to be able to strafe the enemy ships and force the Japanese carriers to make sharp evasive maneuvers. By obliging the Japanese to keep their flight decks clear to continually cycle and reinforce their combat air patrol, they prevented any Japanese counter-attack against the American carriers, just as Spruance had anticipated. This window of opportunity was exploited by the late-arriving Douglas SBD Dauntless dive bombers led by Lieutenant Commander C. Wade McClusky and Max Leslie, which dive-bombed and fatally damaged three of the four Japanese carriers about one hour after the first TBD torpedo attacks had developed.

The Navy immediately withdrew the TBD from front-line units after Midway; in any case, there were only 39 aircraft left. They remained in service briefly in the Atlantic and in training squadrons until 1944. The original prototype finished its career at NAS Norman, Oklahoma, and the last TBD in the U.S. Navy was used by the Commander of Fleet Air Activities-West Coast. When his TBD was scrapped in November 1944, there were no more. None survived the war and there are none known to exist on dry land today.
A TBD in action!
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23046
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 08:51:25 AM »
TBD Devastator was the US Navy counterpart to the B5N torpedo bomber for the IJN which was also marvelously modern when introduced, had early success and was then revealed as woefully obsolete.  The B6N was the IJN's counterpart to the TBD/TBF that we have in AH for the American torpedo bomber.  The British counterpart to the B5N and TBD was the Swordfish.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Butcher

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5323
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2013, 01:19:32 PM »
One thing that is interesting, is the TBD Devastator was highly effective, cannot remember what book I read, but they commented that using it with F3F protection - it was an accurate, highly effective torpedo bomber.

However midway was just a spook that really gave it a bad rep.
JG 52

Offline Volron

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5799
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2013, 04:50:56 PM »
Didn't help that a HUGE chunk of all TBD's were shot down either.  That being said, anything with effective escort can do a lot of damage. :)
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline Saxman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9155
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2013, 05:58:45 PM »
It would be great to have this in the game. Even if it didn't play an extensive role in the war, it still played a significant one, and TBM substitutes in any sort of early war scenario is just wrong.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11607
      • Trainer's Website
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2013, 06:39:06 PM »
Earl when you copy/paste from a web page you should credit the site or include a link.

Offline Brooke

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15476
      • http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2013, 02:49:16 AM »
There is a great book on VT-8 that covers the Midway battle with new revelations on why it was such a disaster for the torpedo bombers:  A Dawn Like Thunder, by Mrazek.  Great book.

Offline Blinder

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 547
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2013, 08:26:04 PM »
The TBD was a classic case of an excellent aircraft whose lifecycle was unusually short due to rapidly developing events and the resulting aeronautical progress. It was damn near obsolete the first time it trapped aboard The Lady Lex and Sister Sara.
Fighter pilots win glory .... Bomber pilots win wars.



17th Guards Air Assault Regiment (VVS) "Badenov's Red Raiders"

Offline sparky1

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 08:50:16 PM »
+1 with formations please  :devil

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 01:54:35 AM »
There is a great book on VT-8 that covers the Midway battle with new revelations on why it was such a disaster for the torpedo bombers:  A Dawn Like Thunder, by Mrazek.  Great book.

John Ford made an excellent movie in memory of the pilots and crews of VT-8, Torpedo Squadron 8.  

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Brooke

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15476
      • http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 12:55:42 PM »
John Ford made an excellent movie in memory of the pilots and crews of VT-8, Torpedo Squadron 8.  

ack-ack

Excellent.  Thanks for the recommendation.  :aok

Offline Squire

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7683
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 01:21:04 PM »
The hard truth was that aerial torpedo attacks vs capital ships on the high seas was at best a highly risky affair. The torp bombers have to come in very low, and slow to release the payload and thats in the face of heavy AAA and sometimes enemy fighter planes. At surprise attacks vs anchored fleets at Taranto (at night) and Pearl Harbor they shone best...but when the fleets were expecting them and free to manuever that was a different story.

Warloc
Friday Squad Ops CM Team
1841 Squadron Fleet Air Arm
Aces High since Tour 24

Offline earl1937

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2013, 08:49:06 AM »
+1 with formations please  :devil
:airplane: Here you go!
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2013, 09:15:42 AM »
I think this is a great time for more pics (and diagrams) of the TBD. Some may
not agree but I think it's a pretty neat looking plane. I've also been swayed (since
the post event discussion of the 'Fast Carriers' FSO) that the addition of this plane
would be most beneficial to events (though probably quite disappointing to many
MA players).










Offline earl1937

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Re: TBD Devastator
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2013, 04:34:53 PM »
I think this is a great time for more pics (and diagrams) of the TBD. Some may
not agree but I think it's a pretty neat looking plane. I've also been swayed (since
the post event discussion of the 'Fast Carriers' FSO) that the addition of this plane
would be most beneficial to events (though probably quite disappointing to many
MA players).

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
:airplane: I agree, I think it would add something to the game! I have often wonder what this great looking bird would have been, had they put a R-2800 on it, like the F6F. I guess when it was designed, they probably didn't think of Jap Zero's flying at 350MPH, running them down. These are great pic's you have posted, and I know you have more in your library. Would you please post some on the early A-1's, which missed the war by a few short months. Dr. Jim Danworth, a heart surgeon in Atlanta, has a completely restored AE1 and it is based at Peach-tree Deklab airport in Atlanta and is based at Epps Air Service.
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!