NO problem with the 51H being perked when it comes OUT i ll just...

[StSanta]

Heh anyone saying there's a PRO LW thing going in Aces High should have their sanity chip upgraded from an early alpha version ot a current beta one.

Let's look at some facts and examine the planes of the LW:

the most potent fighter is the G10; superb energy fighter because of its engine. Unfortunately, it suffers from lack of armament (and taking pods remove the edge), quite bad roll rate, horrible high speed handling with lockup, lack of elevator authority and needs constant trimming. It's also prone to engine outs when damaged and cannot fly with a missing wingtip very well. What it has is acceleration, speed and climbrate. It's a good plane, but if I had to choose between it and a YAK for the MA, I'd choose the YAK due to it handling much better.

G6 - slower than the g2 and the G10, and not that impressive a climbrate for a 109. An in between aircraft that is ok, but not good.

The G2 is a capable plane. It doesn't turn as well as the t&b'ers and it doesn't do b&z that good, but it's a beautiful e fighter. The YAK and LA-5 are equally good or better. Can bring pods without losing too much of the edge.

109F4 is quite slow, doesn't turn much better than the G2 and is outclassed by say a Spit or a N1K.

190A5 - potent low level plane. Outaccelerates and outclimbs other b&z'ers down low, but is significantly slower. Cannot hold its own  vs t&b'ers in a t&b fight, and some can actually catch it. And outmaneuver it and do decent b&z.

190A8 is a heavy mother. Good with alt, but outdone by all b&z'ers in all regards except roll rate at medium and low speeds. Great gun package.

All LW jabos can only take one egg, and their guns are shortranged 20mm's complemented by either 7.9mm or 13mm, which also have short range compared to other guns.

I don't think one can say there is a pro-LW environment in AH - the US side has very potent planes with great capabilities. And lots of different models.

In nearly all aspects, the LW fighters are outdone by comparable fighters from other sides. As it should be, as this was the way it was in the war. But a thing such as adding a dedicated (note that keyword  ) JABO would be nice.

------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch

[Karnak]

StSanta,
Nobody is saying that AH has a pro-LW angle.  What we are saying is that certain people have personal opinions of what is a valid aircraft and what is not that are based on concepts that would heavily favor the LW.  These individules tend to posit their positions as unbiased, but that is BS.

My opinion of those who make "combat" the requirement is the same as my opinion of those who make "production numbers" the issue.  I think both groups are trying to get an edge for their pet aircraft/side/nationality.  They are all biased.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by Hangtime:
Main Arena: "WHAT IF!!.."

Historical Arena: "WHAT WAS!!.."

Everything about MA play from icons to CV's, the way we fly; the way we organise, the interaction of P51 vs F6F vs N1K vs FW19, etc is WHAT IF.

Sure.. all that neat exotic stuff the LW was working on as well as planes like the P51H ought to be modeled and available in the MA. Inaddition to early war too.. the more planes the better. HTC has made it abunadantly clear they will do early war stuff as well as the interesting late war stuff.. and just because a plane didn't see combat shouldn't (and won't) make it inadmittable in the MA or the sim! It's about flying 'intresting planes in intresting ways against intrestiong opponents'! MA should be inclusionary; HA exclusionary based on timeline (RPS).

For the HA, a RPS and keep it going right on thru 1946 or even longer for planes.. historical matchups, country matchups, all that neato stuff... airwar circa 1946 at the end of the RPS.    

Too often we all fall into this absurd tail-chase of trying to make the MA the HA.. we don't HAVE a HA.. we gotta MA, it's DIFFERENT... it's "WHAT IF!!.."

Yes; we NEED an HA.. tell HTC so!    

Ditto! I've been noticing lately that the MA isn't an exact historical arena. Has anyone else.   I would prefer that the plane were kept to planes available (flying) during WWII. If it was on the drawing board I would prefer it be left there. For example the P-80 was in Italy in May 1945. The Go 229 was actually flying in WWII. The de Havilland Vampire actually flew during WWII. Any of the planes that actually flew during WWII are fair game in my opinion. If it never actually took to wing in WWII personally I think it shouldn't be on here. Someone made a good point about adding the Allied planes that never actually saw combat. The Axis was putting ANYTHING that could be thrown into the air up. The Me 262's were still having problems that to the Allies would have made it intelligible for service only because they had the luxury of knowing the war was almost over and they would win. It wasn't going to take risking pilots in planes that were barely operational to win. The only hope for the Axis was to put up anything that was showing some promise. Look at the Me 163. The Allies would never have put there pilots into a ship like that because they didn't have to. The Allies would have done the same if they had to. Thus a plane that the Allies still considered in testing would have been pressed into service by the Axis. On top of all of this all they have to do if one starts to get to be to dominant is raise the price for it. It's easy. Ok maybe not the Go 229 but you get my point.

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-29-2001).]

[Hobodog]

Hey if this gets to far out of wahck well jsut have to get ourselves an F8F Bearcat for some but then the INFAMOUS(ly terrible) me 262 copy the JAPs Kikka  

[MrSiD]

Clearly what AH needs is a historical ww2 arena. There's a very clear demand for it (with rps of course)

Main arena with mixed planeset is dull and boring, only the suicidal will try anything early-war there... However with rps you're forced to try out the early planes (and maybe learn something new in the process..)

It was a huge hit back at WB, sure it had opposition (those 5-10 guys flying in the main crying) but I'm sure you see my point.

[tom666]

Westy,you go get a grip yourself.
I don`t decide what planes will be put in this game.I only expressed my oppinion.
This is said to be a WWII simulation.I would like to fly the planes that I`ve read about.
I fly LW planes most the time,and I fly the seafire coz there`s no carrier based LW plane in AH.Would I like to see one?Hell no.
The Graf Zeppelin didn`t make it out of the shipyard by war`s end,so I see no point of modelling any seabased LW planes in AH.
And I see no point of turning AH into some kind of WWII arial hot rod show.
I would have much more fun in a 109E bashing
Mark I spits and hurricanes ,than chasing any super mustang in my was-gonna-fly-in-1946 whatever kind of mega fighter.

[Torgo]

I have to say again, I support the "no planes that didn't see WWII combat" and I'm definately no Luftwobble.

I played in every large-scale WB scenario from after Kiel to when Pyro and HT left...Solomons, Pointblank, etc.

And I didn't play German or Japanese in a single one. And was Allied in Afrika Corps.  No Luftwobble would do that :-)

My point is essentially one of timing.

Sure, 10 years from now when we're all playing Virtual Reality AH (with pilot-hit "Virtual Pain(tm)", and they've modeled 567 WWII aircraft and are out of ideas, sure, start tossing in the P-51H and the Bearcat and the P-80 and the Amerika Bomber and whatever the hell that German thing was that the F-86 and the Mig-15 were ripped off from.

But we have so many fascinating ACTUAL WWII COMBAT AC to model first.

I will be pretty damn disappointed if we get a P-51H before a:

P-63 Kingcobra
IAR-80
Beaufighter
Finnish Brewster Buffalo
Tu-2
Me-410
J2M3 Raiden
Sm-79 Sparviero

Etc. Etc. Etc.

The "excitement" of continually adding late-war uber-aircraft, or non-WWII combat, or prototype fantasy aircraft, is sort of a "false" thrill.

It SOUNDS great. But it will get boring after a while. Like an old D & D campaign where the GM would keep having you find 50,000 gold pieces and a +60 Sword of Ultimate Doom in every other room. It's cool for a little bit. But quickly becomes tiresome.

[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 01-29-2001).]

[Westy]

"This is said to be a WWII simulation"

 Again. You are wrong Tom666.  It is a place where people come and try out WWII modelled aircraft in online combat.

 As for not having something because it did not see action during a specific period? Bah.
 That is like having a replication of teams in a famous sports event from history (1975 World Serios, 1972 Stanley Cup, etc etc) and making one team's hands tied because in the actual game some of thier players weren't needed get in the game as they kicked bellybutton withou them anyway. But the other team tried playing every one, including the janitor and it's mascot, to try and recover, to no avail. So we players, years after the event, are given the means to preplay the events from long agao..oh! ...But one team is being allowed everything on the field while the other has to forego it's bench warmers.  To hell with that.  I for one am going to enjoy AH with the perks - TA-152, DO-335, P51H, Meteor, whatever.  And fyi, I'm also going to enjoy the hell out of the "Rata", Buffalo or A5M when we get them too.

  -Westy

(thanks DW6 <G> )

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-30-2001).]

[Duckwing6]

The "Rasta" comes from Jamaica .. the "RATA" from russia Westy  

DW6

[tom666]

Thank You Torgo,at least someone gets my point.

Westy , your comment makes no sense whatsoever.