Author Topic: B-17F/G Model  (Read 1450 times)

Offline earl1937

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B-17F/G Model
« on: November 13, 2013, 01:01:47 PM »
 :airplane: I thought with the "wish" for the B-17F aircraft in the Aces High game, I thought it might be interesting to take a closer look at the "F" and ran across a very interesting item, the first B-17 to have the remote controlled chin turret was in fact the "F" model, not the G as I had thought. One of the aircraft pic's in this post are of a privately owned B-17F, which took 21 years to restore, but for the love of me, couldn't find the owners name anywhere. Maybe some of you are familiar with this "F" model, tail number N17W. Checked serveral sites for info and below is a copy from "Wiki", which was as good as any, so I thought I would share it with you guys.
The B-17F was an upgrade of the B-17E, although outwardly the types were distinguished only by exchanging the framed nose-glass that had originated with the B-17B, for a molded one-piece plexiglas cone. Late production "F" series aircraft received a "cheek"-mounted gun on each side of the nose, offset in their horizontal placing with the starboard "cheek" emplacement further forward, and fully feathering paddle-bladed propellers. Numerous internal changes were made to improve the effectiveness, range, and load capacity of the B-17. However, once placed in combat service, the "F" series was found to be tail heavy. The weight of gunners and ammunition when combat-loaded moved the center of gravity rearward from its design point and forced the constant use of elevator trim tab, stressing this component. In combat the B-17F proved almost immediately to have inadequate defensive protection when attacked from the front. Various armament configurations of two to four flexible guns were utilized in the field, as sometimes cannibalized from damaged B-17s' tail gun positions (as one example), but the problem was not adequately addressed until the introduction of a powered, remotely operated "chin" turret in the final production blocks of the F-series Fortresses, directly derived from its debut on the YB-40 experimental "gunship" version.
By using a stronger undercarriage, the maximum bomb capacity was increased from 4,200 lb (1,900 kg) to 8,000 lb (3,600 kg). Though this modification reduced cruise speed by 70 mph (110 km/h), the increase in bomb capacity was a decided advantage. A number of other modifications were made, including re-integrating external bomb racks, but because of its negative impact on both rate-of-climb and high altitude flight the configuration was rarely used and the racks were removed.



Range and combat radius were extended with the installation in mid-production of additional fuel cells in the wings. Called "Tokyo tanks", nine self-sealing rubber-composition tanks were mounted inside each wing on each side of the joint between the inner and outer wing sections. With an extra 1,080 US gal (4,100 l) to the 1,700 US gal (6,400 l) available on the first B-17Fs, the Tokyo tanks added approximately 900 mi (1,400 km) to the bomber's range.
3,405 were built: 2,300 by Boeing, 605 by Douglas, and 500 by Lockheed (Vega). These included the famous Memphis Belle. 19 were transferred to the RAF, where they served with RAF Coastal Command as the Fortress II. Three examples of the B-17F remain in existence in the 21st century, including the under-restoration Memphis Belle.
  Cockpit view of the privately owned B-17F and this aircraft is credited with being the most authentically restore B-17 in the world.

  Radio Operators station in the B-17F.

  An artist conception of the first "F" model with remote operated chin guns.

  War time pic of B-17F.

Of course everyone is familiar with the most famous B-17F, the Memphis Belle, which is being restored, but not sure what stage. Here is link for restoration stage of Memphis Belle.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/exhibits/restoration/index.asp

 

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Offline DaveBB

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Re: B-17F/G Model
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 06:31:15 PM »
The top turret in the pictures are two different models.  One is the bubble-top top turret, the other (on the restored aircraft) is the flatter, earlier version.
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Offline Volron

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Re: B-17F/G Model
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 06:32:58 PM »
The top turret in the pictures are two different models.  One is the bubble-top top turret, the other (on the restored aircraft) is the flatter, earlier version.

One isn't an actual photo. :)
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Offline DubiousKB

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Re: B-17F/G Model
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2013, 12:32:53 PM »
Great story. Didn't know some of that about one of my favorite aircraft. 

In the remote controlled chin turret, who controlled it? Bombardier?
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Offline Karnak

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Re: B-17F/G Model
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2013, 12:45:19 PM »
Great story. Didn't know some of that about one of my favorite aircraft. 

In the remote controlled chin turret, who controlled it? Bombardier?
Keep in mind most B-17Fs did not have it and if it is added to AH we are sure to get an early example so as to offer greater coverage.
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Offline earl1937

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Re: B-17F/G Model
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2013, 05:26:38 PM »
The top turret in the pictures are two different models.  One is the bubble-top top turret, the other (on the restored aircraft) is the flatter, earlier version.
:airplane: The one you are referring to is an ARTIST's painting of a 17F and he probably did not know the difference.
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Offline earl1937

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Re: B-17F/G Model
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2013, 05:30:34 PM »
Great story. Didn't know some of that about one of my favorite aircraft. 

In the remote controlled chin turret, who controlled it? Bombardier?
:airplane: I would think the navigator, because over the target, with lots of bad aircraft trying to shoot them down, and the bombardier lining up the bomb drop, he seems as tho the logical crew member to handle the chin turret.
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Offline XxDaSTaRxx

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Re: B-17F/G Model
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2013, 05:51:34 PM »
I've called for this many times in the wishlist. Let's hope we will see it in a future version.  :pray  :aok
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: B-17F/G Model
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2013, 07:35:32 PM »
A question on armament.

A so-called aviation expert has stated that changing from .30" to .50" mgs was an authorized modification to B-17Es.

Anyone have info on this?

Offline colmbo

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Re: B-17F/G Model
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2013, 07:36:58 PM »
Great story. Didn't know some of that about one of my favorite aircraft. 

In the remote controlled chin turret, who controlled it? Bombardier?

Did any of those see combat?

If set up like the G the bombardier would operate the guns...or someone sitting in the bombardiers seat since that is where the sight/controls are at.
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Offline colmbo

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Re: B-17F/G Model
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2013, 07:38:07 PM »
A question on armament.

A so-called aviation expert has stated that changing from .30" to .50" mgs was an authorized modification to B-17Es.

Anyone have info on this?

I read that here I think.  I couldn't find any reference to the B17E ever having 30 calibre guns so I doubt the statement. 
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