Author Topic: Why a K-14 is not a K-14A nor a Mark 23.  (Read 1526 times)

Offline bustr

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Why a K-14 is not a K-14A nor a Mark 23.
« on: November 09, 2013, 05:21:52 PM »
Recently I found someone who turned on the lights in their K-14 lead computing gyro gunsights. The pictures of the fixed reticles with rocket and bomb aid are not what the AAF manual for the K-14A\Mark 23 described. The manual has a warning about the contents not all being for the K-14A and some things for the Mark 23.

Confused yet?

Originally in 1943 the NAVY became interested in the British MK II GGS. So they began their own development producing the Mark 18 for gunner positions and Mark 21 for fighters. The USAAF pushed the NAVY to finish development and route all of the Mark 21 to the ETO for the 8th AAF in 1944. The AAF designated them K-14. As we all know they have an active 6-star reticle and a fixed 70Mil ring and cross for rocket\bombs and strafing. No Mark 21 were ever used by the NAVY but, they kept developing the gunsight. Part of the reason the AAF got all of the Mark 21 is Kodak had been ramped up producing them from late 1943. AC spark plug division of General Motors Corporation would not be ready until the end of 1944 when the K-14A and Mark 23 were introduced. The Mark 23 was never used in combat.

The K-14A is data plate tagged on the gunsight case K-14A where as all K-14 are tagged US NAVY Mark 21. The AAF manual for the K-14A includes the Mark 23 because of similarities except in the case of the fixed reticle with rocket\bomb aid. In the game, if you look real close at the left had side of the K-14A where the range drum is. You will see in place of the range numbers and tick marks, the Name US K-14 A and a parts serial number stretched around the dial in the wrong place. There were two data plates. One on the back of the case and one on the top of the gyro unit. On the front of the K-14A, the wing span selector did away with the names of axis aircraft and wingspan numbers. There should only be numbers unless the person who modeled the HTC K-14A was looking at a Mark 21 that had been field upgraded to a K-14A with the main data plate re-stamped to reflect the modification.

Some show and tell at this point to get more confusing. The original 70Mil ring in the K-14 was not very good for aiming the 5in HVAR. At the same time P38L and P47 were being mounted with the 5in HVAR and the AAF came out with a standard rocket aid. It appears they included it in all of the latest gunsights for P38, P47 and P51.

You can get all of the gunsights here>>>>: http://www60.zippyshare.com/v/58544012/file.html

Any popup windows during the download, kill them they want to force a search engine in your browser.

Unzip to a directory and all countries have their own folder. A readme is in each to give the historical info. Remember each gunsight.bmp file has to be copied to the game sights folder with it's gunsight.mil file. If you don't, the gunsight will show up very tiny.

K-14\K-14A Rocket\Bomb aid fixed reticle.

Original 70Mil ring, cross.


70Mil ring, cross and aid.


101Mil lower quarter ring, cross and aid.


N9 101Mil ring and rocket aid insert used in P38L, P47 L3 and Mk8 gunsights.

bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Citabria

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Re: Why a K-14 is not a K-14A nor a Mark 23.
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2013, 06:30:13 PM »
I think the actual k14 has one stationary ring and bead and the other moves by gyro forces to help compute lead. thus the reason why there are two lighting systems at the base of the unit below the glass.

the ring and bead that is stationary is depicted to look like the pic on the top you posted and the gyro part that moves looks like the ah mk14 gunsight. though that may just be another artists interpretation as I havent seen what the real one looks like in action.
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline bustr

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Re: Why a K-14 is not a K-14A nor a Mark 23.
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2013, 07:33:17 PM »
You had 4 selections.

1. - Fixed ring and cross. Or cross after closing the ring blanker.
2. - Fixed ring and cross and movable 6-star Gyro. Most used the ring blanker and showed only the cross fixed.
3. - Daytime Gyro.
4. - Nighttime Gyro. Range fixed at 150yds.

Selection (1.) was for rockets\bombs, if the Gyro locked up air to air, and bore sighting.
Selection (2.) was to show amount of offset during air to air, or on the ground to adjust the 6-star to the bore sighting.

Both mirrors had internal adjustment to set the center of each reticle to the center of the reflector plate relative to the bore sighting harmonization range. The early 70Mil ring was found to be useless for rockets or air to air lead shooting.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline DaveBB

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Re: Why a K-14 is not a K-14A nor a Mark 23.
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2013, 07:56:06 PM »
So if you were pulling several G's in a maneuver, trying to track a bandit, would you simply put the bandit in the gunsight?  Or did you need to also lead your fire?
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline bustr

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Re: Why a K-14 is not a K-14A nor a Mark 23.
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2013, 08:44:09 PM »
So if you were pulling several G's in a maneuver, trying to track a bandit, would you simply put the bandit in the gunsight?  Or did you need to also lead your fire?

The gyro 6-star visa gyroscopic precession in response to the G pulled in the turn would hold the 6-star back from the bore sighted center of the gunsight. Like the modified screen capture below. Some pilots left the center cross illuminated. The K-14 was usable in low E turns and not high E high G load turn fighting acrobatics like we do in the game as a matter of standard procedure. That would lock the gyro with the 6-star off the edge of the reflector plate. In Korea with the radar ranged gunsights in F86 they finally had to implement G limiters to keep the gunsight from being useless. Probably the source of Gabreski saying he could shoot better with a wad of gum stuck to the glass. Early on F86 pilots were locking up the gyro controlled reticle during combat using the late model K-14 variant first utilized in F86.


bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.