Best Heavy Fighter

[J.A.W.]

A.A.,
That Droop Snoot program, [123 P-38 conversions which were then useless as fighter bombers] had to be pretty expensive.. so, who paid, Lockheed?

The D.S. P-38s then led hundreds of regular P-38s on mundane medium bomber missions..

Why ? Was there a shortage of B-26s?

Or had a cost/benefit analysis shown that even the expensive D.S.
program was cheaper than using P-38s for "risky dive bombing"
missions - like the other JABOs routinely did..

Of course the USAAF might well have said to Lockheed..

'You pay to fix the P-38 for a sustainable cost/benefit mission, or we'll withdraw them from the ETO altogether"..

Sounds reasonable, otherwise, it does seem a lot of trouble to go to, if the P-38
was as good a fighter bomber as its ETO rivals..

[J.A.W.]

Sm, you can read, right?

By 'self-serving' - I was referring to the USN doing the 'sour grapes' routine about the  '190s K-G control unit..

& I post plenty of supporting data links,  - more than many others post..

[J.A.W.]

Kn, go back & look at that chart..

Both R-R mills [Griffon & Merlin] are noted as running +25lb boost..

Flight testing had revealed a number of problems, [ over the direct TEL level issue] including..
-  Griffon main bearing failure,
which necessitated a reduction to +21lbs boost.

& De Havilland CSU/propellor failures on Tempests, which then got Rotol
props, so enabling the Sabre to run at higher outputs for more speed..

[Ack-Ack]

For example, from the invasion to VE-day both the P-38 & Tempest were
tasked with tactical operations, & the Tempest bagged every type of LW jet & FW long-nose flying, while the P-38 did not..

On 7/29/44, Capt. Arthur Jeffrey, flying the P-38J-15 (42-104425) "Boomerang" shot down a Me 163 Komet.  The other thing that makes Jeffrey's kill noteworthy is that when chasing the Me 163 in a dive, he exceeded 500mph as he shot down the Komet.  He probably would have had an easier time if he had a J-25L0 with the dive flaps but according to his AAR, he didn't experience any undue difficulties in recovering from the high speed dive.

ack-ack

[J.A.W.]

What? - So, you mean he shot down a dead engined.. glider.. good work..

Every P-38 at 500mph was per-se out of control..

& maybe his ASI was over its redline too, like the '700mph dive' P-38 myth..

Was it caught on gun-camera? Got a link to the footage?

[Ack-Ack]

But then again, the RAF didn't want P-38s anyway..

You don't take into account the P-38 the RAF evaluated for purchase was the Model 322B, which the Lockheed engineers snidely referred to as the 'castrated' P-38 because of the British request to remove the supercharger and make both engine right turning instead of counter-rotating.  The Lockheed engineers protested and told the British that this would seriously effect the P-38s performance and they were proven correct.

When the RAF evaluated a standard P-38F, the RAF found it was faster than the Spitfire Mk IX at low to medium altitudes with the Spitfire Mk IX being faster at high altitudes.  When the RAF was doing evaluations of the P-47C, they flew it against a P-38F and the RAF test pilot at the conclusion of his report stated that if he had a choice between the Thunderbolt and the Lightning, he would pick the Lightning.  In the P-47C evaluation, it was also flown against a Typhoon IB and the Mustang X.

Tactical Trials - P-38F "Lightning"

"Thunderbolt" Aircraft (P.47C)

ack-ack

[J.A.W.]

A.A. Fair enough, & I stand corrected..

Tempests shot down every type of LW TURBO jet.. & P-38s did not..

Rockets, while technically 'reaction jet propelled [ when running at least] are  in fact usually referred to as 'rockets' rather than 'jets'..

[Ack-Ack]

A.A., What do you know of the "Fork tailed Devil" P-38 myth?

It was most likely made up by an Allied war correspondent because it made a good headline and it was then played up by Lockheed and the USAAF stateside.  I'm not aware of any records (official or pilot accounts) of any German pilot referring to the P-38 as that.  

ack-ack

[J.A.W.]

Yes, ok, & thanks for that trials info too, A.A.

There was a program whereby the USAAF evaluated British aircraft too,
both in Britain & at the Wright Field test facility stateside..

The British also got the lightweight Mustangs in their hands, & obviously,
if they'd wanted P-38s for the RAF, they would've got them too..

They didn't..

[Ack-Ack]

What? - So, you mean he shot down a dead engined.. glider.. good work..

The Komet was going faster than 500mph, hardly an easy target.

Every P-38 at 500mph was per-se out of control..

& maybe his ASI was over its redline too, like the '700mph dive' P-38 myth..

As I mentioned, once you're faced with facts that show you to be wrong, you just dismiss them. 

Since Jeffrey was able to exceed 500mph in a dive and pull out without difficulties, he obviously wasn't flying a plane that was out of control.  Then again, Jeffrey, like the other Riddle's Raiders, had many hours of training in the P-38 (in the P-38G and H) before deploying to England in the P-38J.  Jeffrey was one of the more experienced Lightning pilots in the ETO.

I don't know where you're getting the "700mph dive P-38 myth" from.  No one in this thread has even stated that at all, but it fits your typical MO when faced with facts that show you to be wrong you toss out straw man attacks.

Was it caught on gun-camera? Got a link to the footage?

I have no idea if it was caught on a gun camera.  Whether it was or not, does not invalidate the USAAF official records giving Capt. Jeffrey credit for a kill on a Komet.

ack-ack

[Zoney]

J.A.W., what is your handle in Aces High please?

[J.A.W.]

Are you kidding?

 I "take the 5th" on that question..

[Ack-Ack]

J.A.W., what is your handle in Aces High please?

Sounds like someone that has had his arse handed to him many times by a P-38 in game.

ack-ack

[J.A.W.]

A.A., the P-38..
[ see already posted info - the  E. Brown video & Mach limiting speed charts]

WAS out of control at speeds above ~440mph [ Vne below 10kft].
The pilot may have seen it on his ASI, but like the mythical '700mph'
P-38 dives it had to be an ASI correction error..

If he still had control to aim & shoot down the `163,
then he was NOT doing 500mph..

[Zoney]

Are you kidding?

 I "take the 5th" on that question..

I'm not asking for your real name and home address sir.  I'm asking for who you are playing in the game.  I don't understand why you would refuse to let that be known.  This game is a "community" of people playing a game together.  I just want to know who my new neighbor is sir.

No, I am not kidding.