Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary

[Slash27]

Don't ya all just love it when people write in here and complain about FSO and then write that they are NEVER going to play agian..... Like anyone really gives a CRAP.   

And yours is the valued opinion?

[Fulcrum]

Don't ya all just love it when people write in here and complain about FSO and then write that they are NEVER going to play agian..... Like anyone really gives a CRAP.   

If people are writing saying they will not participate further it might be indicative of a trend.  Just sayin'.  To each their own.

[perdue3]

The set up requires a "Min" turn out for a plane type you are required to hit that mark or take the penelity.  The AXIS was way off the mark.  There are several ways the CIC can ensure 100% that the "Min" is meant.  Like commented twice the number needed.  Or splitting up plane types 50/50 to a squad and not requiring a squad comment past 50% of it lowest turnout number.  And Im sure there are other ways as well.  Lastly the CIC can go around the towers and get a head count on his "Min" AC numbers as a last check.  Squad CO's can report to the CIC there turn out especially if it going to be low so the CIC can do some last minute adjustments.  Etc Etc Etc.  Just making a plan and hoping for the best isn't a plan.  Or more plainly "Hope" isn't a plan.

If you check the ALLIED logs for Frame 2 you will see that all of our "Min"s were meant.  So it can be done and its easy to do.

If your the CIC and you plan a mission and the "Min"s arnt meant you deserve a penility.  And the AXIS side should take a hard hit for it.  Its the only way to enforce the rules.  And if this had been the ALLIES I would chime exactly the same way.

In Frame 2 the AXIS had what amounted to 2 extra squads flying the best AC Fighter of the game (24 AC).  That had a marked effect which changed the outcome of the frame.
The AXIS was short 8 bombers so the ALLIED sides was denied those kill point potential = 72 points
The AXIS was short 8 110's so the ALLIED side was denied those kill point potential = 32 points

And lastly how many "extra" kills did the AXIS side get because you had 16 extra 109G-2's and 8 X 109 drivers in G's and not E's.  Hard to say.... and then the negative effect that would have had if the kills took place before the ALLIED fighters achieved their primary missions like Striking targets or hunting down bombers.

Intention to plan a good mission doesn't count.  Either you did or didn't by the logs.  The AXIS didn't.  And because AXIS AC types and Min's were so far off I would hope a sizeable penelity is taken.  Otherwise there wont be an incentive for future CIC's and planners to follow the set up rules.  They will "Game the Game" and take the penility hit knowing that the outcome is better than the penility.  Penilites should be in points and rated at 4 times the point value that was achieved or effected by.  My opinion.

Not saying the AXIS CIC intentially planned a mission to Game the Game.  Not at all.  Im saying the plan violated the setup rules by a very wide margin.  So take the hit and lets move on. 

Although I shouldn't considering the cloud above my head, I will bite.

You are 100% correct when you say a penalty should be given. If we are 16 planes below MIN or above MAX there should be a penalty. Obviously that gave us an advantage. However, the penalty will not be enough to keep us from winning. Unless the penalty is gross and exaggerated. This is where it becomes hard to be an Admin CM I suppose. You have to penalize but the penalty does not make a very big dent in score. So we dont know if that CiC learned or not. I completely agree with you Viper, the only way to enforce the rules is penalize. I have all confidence in saying that Nef will be penalizing us for our numbers in Frame 2.


As for Fulcrum, sorry you didnt have much fun in FSO. In my experience, FSO is the best thing AH has to offer. I would be devastated if I could not fly. I have flown as a role player and I have led a squad in FSO. Some people just have different taste I suppose. I however will not bash you because you did not enjoy your time. As an FSO CO, I thank you for trying FSO and wish you could stay. But I completely understand <S>

[ELD66]

Without a doubt the worst, least co-ordinated and fun FSO I've ever participated in.  And the last.

 Most likely because you weren't flying with the AK's. But as you say to each his own.

[Fulcrum]

Most likely because you weren't flying with the AK's. But as you say to each his own.

Eld...My comment and opinion have nothing to do with the squad I'm flying with.  Muppets or AKs it would have been a crappy FSO.  But since you brought it up, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I failed to have fun flying FSO with the AKs until after you left and others took over the planning activities.

As for Fulcrum, sorry you didn't have much fun in FSO. In my experience, FSO is the best thing AH has to offer. I would be devastated if I could not fly. I have flown as a role player and I have led a squad in FSO. Some people just have different taste I suppose. I however will not bash you because you did not enjoy your time. As an FSO CO, I thank you for trying FSO and wish you could stay. But I completely understand <S>

I have flown FSO for nearly two years now.  I used to enjoy it.  But the mission design has started to become stale at best or, taking last night as an example, downright boring.  Flying 3 sectors in HE 111s acting as transports...hmmmm...historic ally accurate? Sure thing. Quality entertainment? Debatable....at best.

Near the end the following two thoughts kept rolling through my mind:

a.) "That is 90 minutes of my life I'm not going to get back."

b.) "Please God let some damn Yak end my suffering soon or I swear I'm going to plow this thing into the ground and swear it was caused by a joystick malfunction."

I know a lot of people put a good bit of time into the design of these events.  I do not want to cast dirt on their voluntary efforts.  I also know you can't please everyone.  But seriously, putting a bomber on auto pilot for 90 minutes to fly to a field, rearm and fly back?  I've had more fun watching grass grow.

I've said my peace and voiced an opinion I knew wouldn't be taken well by the community.  I'm sorry (honestly) if feelings are hurt...but it needed to be said.  FSO is a voluntary effort....so I have decided to not do so going forward. 

to you all.

P.S. please note these are my personal opinions and do not necessary reflect those of my fellow squad mates.

[APDrone]

Eld...My comment and opinion have nothing to do with the squad I'm flying with.  Muppets or AKs it would have been a crappy FSO.  But since you brought it up, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I failed to have fun flying FSO with the AKs until after you left and others took over the planning activities.

I have flown FSO for nearly two years now.  I used to enjoy it.  But the mission design has started to become stale at best or, taking last night as an example, downright boring.  Flying 3 sectors in HE 111s acting as transports...hmmmm...historic ally accurate? Sure thing. Quality entertainment? Debatable....at best.

Near the end the following two thoughts kept rolling through my mind:

a.) "That is 90 minutes of my life I'm not going to get back."

b.) "Please God let some damn Yak end my suffering soon or I swear I'm going to plow this thing into the ground and swear it was caused by a joystick malfunction."

I know a lot of people put a good bit of time into the design of these events.  I do not want to cast dirt on their voluntary efforts.  I also know you can't please everyone.  But seriously, putting a bomber on auto pilot for 90 minutes to fly to a field, rearm and fly back?  I've had more fun watching grass grow.

I've said my peace and voiced an opinion I knew wouldn't be taken well by the community.  I'm sorry (honestly) if feelings are hurt...but it needed to be said.  

to you all.

It's the luck of the draw Fulcrum..   I would MUCH MUCH MUCH .. [ad nausem] be tooling along in the HE-111 than be stuck in the Yak.  Twice.

I've been flying these for over 10 years.. Windshield vs. bug.. Been both.

 

[Shifty]

Fulcrum,

Try and stick with us. The design guys do bear in mind what you guys say and we do take your observations and opinions into account.
We're by no means sitting on some mountain thinking we're perfect and we do our best to make it fun for everyone. Sometimes we pull it off.
Sometimes we don't.  

[KCDitto]

And yours is the valued opinion?

NOPE, not at all..................  Now look. How much time of your life that "you won't get back" do you spend in here squeaking about FSO? Come up with a design and submit it!   Fly......... Don't fly...... who the F cares.

just sayin....

[Pepprr]

Most likely because you weren't flying with the AK's. But as you say to each his own.

You don't want to go there with me either Eld...at all!
This is definitely not the place to air my thoughts about you though. 

Although I don't agree with Fulcrums point of view on fso.  I must say that I didn't enjoy the frame but know
that every squad has to take the good missions with the bad...and the Muppets still made it fun. 

 

[Fulcrum]

NOPE, not at all..................  Now look. How much time of your life that "you won't get back" do you spend in here squeaking about FSO? Come up with a design and submit it!   Fly......... Don't fly...... who the F cares.

just sayin....

I don't think I've ever "squeaked" about FSO or anything before now.  Your mature and classy responses, however, lead me to believe you are something of a "squeaker" yourself.  I voiced my opinion..it's over...move along. 

If there is more to this or your cartoon honor is somehow insulted feel free to ping me for some DA time.

[Slash27]

NOPE, not at all..................  Now look. How much time of your life that "you won't get back" do you spend in here squeaking about FSO? Come up with a design and submit it!   Fly......... Don't fly...... who the F cares.

just sayin....

I squeaked about FSO? May want to get your facts straight while your prancing around your sandbox.

[viking73]

I can't believe I'm seeing complaints about this FSO. Or maybe I should considering no matter what the FSO is someone will complain.

In Frame 1 KN was defense of A25. Engaged outnumbering Yaks. Had JG11 come in and help, right in the middle of it bombers are on their way in. After colliding with a Yak I went to a gunner of a HE111 and immediately fought off (killed) a Yak. Watched and listened as HE111s nervously landed and rearmed. Watched two Yaks strafe the field helpless cause guns don't work while buff is on ground. Shagged [blank] out toward A71. Got caught by P40's at A72. It was one of the wildest FSO's I've ever had.

Frame 2 was somewhat similar. I don't know anything about having too many G-2's cause it was completely fair to the Allies at V97. Once again KN engaged Yaks outnumbered 9v25. Nefarious's group came in and we cleaned up. Still V97 was flattened. It was obvious by the stats that the HE111s had a hard time at Stalingrad.

Frame 3 I was escort for the HE111 with JG11. Buffs got in and barely got out with many not making it. Even tho we were a large squad we still had trouble with a smart attack with IL-2s going after bombers. 109Es throwing BB's at IL-2's was frustrating. Then Yaks and I16's came in. I barely made it out with ammo gone only to be caught by an I16 halfway to A72. Lots of planes on both sides went down.

I thought it was a great idea to have supply planes try and land at an active field. Most of us have to do bomber time in FSOs. I've never had a boring trip in one cause I know it's gonna hit the fan soon. Now if you can't have fun in an FSO like that, then you'll never be happy.

[Changeup]

NOPE, not at all..................  Now look. How much time of your life that "you won't get back" do you spend in here squeaking about FSO? Come up with a design and submit it!   Fly......... Don't fly...... who the F cares.

just sayin....

Who are you?

[KCDitto]

I squeaked about FSO? May want to get your facts straight while your prancing around your sandbox.

   Nothing at YOU slash..  I am NOT prancing in a sandbox   but that was funny.

I was addressing the comment about "The Last FSO I am flying in"         It is not the first time it has been typed and won't be the last. I am just wondering how a grown (my assumption) man can type a comment like that "That set up sucked and I am never going to fly FSO or SCENARIO or what ever again"    What are the other 300 plus guys going to do without YOU! Oh my GOD we are so screwed! That guy quit FSO, we should change the entire way we do things so his panties don't get all bunched up!  Like I said, who cares? Really, anybody?   chirp  chirp   Did not think so.

Your squad got a crappy assignment? OK type about that. We in JG11 DO NOT LIKE PTO! We fly LUFTWAFFE! But, on PTO nights do we take our joysticks and go home? NOPE! We take on what ever assignment given and do what we can with it. We flew He111's in frame 2 and 4 out of 20 made it. We did what we could. I actually enjoyed flying that thing at rooftop level over Stalingrad. Made think of the scene in that movie Enemy at the Gates. I ended up ditching and had a short night, but fun none the less.

Don't like a set up? Type about that and what you think could of made it more balanced? Fun? Historical? Cool. I like reading ideas about changes, but not insulting CM's and calling names, or typing you are quitting FSO........

I am sorry if I upset you or hurt your feelings, I did not mean too. It was just the I quit comment I was questioning, nothing personal.

Yea, Not sure how going to the DA is going to do anything? I work two jobs and play in a band and have a family so I do not even go to MA much. I fly FSO. Want a crack at me? Fly FSO on the ALLIED side and just maybe we will meet in the skies over Germany, Russia, or the Pacific ocean.... But I won't be alone  JG11 will be there, cuz that is how we fly!  FUR DIE SONDERSTAFFLE

[KCDitto]

Who are you?

nobody!