Author Topic: FAA Changes Hiring Process...  (Read 821 times)

Offline flight17

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FAA Changes Hiring Process...
« on: January 08, 2014, 09:46:30 PM »
So, starting mid February, the FAA will be completely changing the way they will hire their new Air Traffic Controllers. Some of the changes are not that big of a deal, but others make me made as hell and I'm not even going for ATC, but they will affect me as a professional pilot.

My local college is a CTI school, Community College of Beaver County. Our Program was started back in the 60's by a famous astronaut and has pretty much been the same since. As part of our curriculum, all ATC students must get a pilots license, either Pvt or Rec. They must all go through Instrument ground training as well.

It is a fact, that our program is THE best in the country. The professors they have during their training are all retired Controllers. The Classes are tough on the kids, but the kids that pass have absolutely no issue once they get to OKC. In Fact, the FAA uses the CCBC students as mentors for all the other students who came from the big names schools like Embry, UND, FIT, etc. If you go to pretty much any major facility, whether it is Enroute or Terminal, more than likely there is one or more CCBC alumni there. Now I'm by no means saying that there are no good controllers/students coming out of these large name schools. There are some, but these schools have become all about making money and are pushing as many through as possible.

My Girl friend for example, her father is a supervisor at Memphis Center. He sent her here because of the reputation here, even though he did not go here. She is in the enroute program, which is the tougher of the two routes to go for ATC. Over the last couple of years, there has been only 1 person to pass the fourth semester of the enroute program in one attempt. Almost 100% of the students have to repeat it because it covers so much and is so thorough.

Like all CTI schools, students could be recommended to be put on a advanced hire list. To be eligible for this list though, the students had to have maintained a 80% or higher in all of their classes.

Our Terminal students have live controlling experience prior to them even going to Oklahoma or even being CTO certified as CCBC owns and operates their own Control Tower, at the Beaver County airport. We are the only college, two or four year, to have their own tower. It is staffed from 7AM till 9PM ever day of the year minus federal holidays by students and their supervisors. And to put things into perspective, we average over 77,000 operations per year at this airport. Which would put us in the low 20's of top 50 busiest GA airports in the US. However, we are not included as it mainly is training flights.

I work at one of the two FBO's that provide the flight training for the college. We operate 13 aircraft within the program, of which 10 are primary trainers. Our FBO alone flew over 7,500hrs with 13 aircraft, 7,000hrs of which were with the 10 primaries.

So basically, because the Race card gets so overly used in this country, the FAA had to change their ways of hiring due to a lawsuit. Over 80% of the current Air Traffic Controllers are white males. Which apparently is a bad thing. If someone has to go out and hire "Minorities" just because they have to, then that is discrimination against whoever the majority is considered. I could care less if I have a white, black, Hispanic, native American, Inuit, gay, lesbian, transgender, whatever of a controller, as long as they know what they are doing because they went through a proper training facility.

Hiring will now be conducted off the street and absolutely no preference will be given to people who have had training in the field. Theoretically, any Joe Schmo is supposed to be on a level playing field as someone who just graduated from ours or any other CTI school. The computer will however give some preference to "aviation experience", but what constitutes experience is yet to be found out. So if you have held a steady job and have gone to a college of some sort for a combination of the two for 4 years or more, you are set to apply. That college education could be in the art of clownery btw.

So now all CTI schools are more or less being made obsolete. We have already had students drop out of our program because of this and I am sure that more will do so as the semester starts next week. Today all CTI schools were having a teleconference with Washington over it.  

In times of our government making irrational decisions for the aviation industry in this country such as increasing the required times to become a first officer at a Part 121 carrier by 600%, I feel this was a big slap in the face to all of the people in the industry. The system has worked for how long now? Why must we change everything because a few people want to pull the race card and file a lawsuit?

So what are your opinions on the FAA hiring Change?

Here is more on the changes
http://www.natca.org/about.aspx?zone=About%20NATCA&pID=241
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 09:53:39 PM by flight17 »
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Offline BluBerry

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Re: What is wrong with this country? Aviation related...
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 09:47:29 PM »
What time was it when you started typing this?  :salute
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 09:52:01 PM by BluBerry »

Offline flight17

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Re: What is wrong with this country? Aviation related...
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2014, 09:52:25 PM »
What time was it when you started typing this.  :salute
lol, that took about an hour to get it civilized and to try and stay away from 14 as much as possible.
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Offline BluBerry

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Re: FAA Changes Hiring Process...
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2014, 09:56:13 PM »
 Well let me light up and read this big wall and ill get back to you.

Offline BluBerry

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Re: FAA Changes Hiring Process...
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 09:59:45 PM »
Almost sounds better to just be a military air traffic controller, then go civilian.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: FAA Changes Hiring Process...
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2014, 10:02:53 PM »



So basically, because the Race card gets so overly used in this country, the FAA had to change their ways of hiring due to a lawsuit. Over 80% of the current Air Traffic Controllers are white males. Which apparently is a bad thing. If someone has to go out and hire "Minorities" just because they have to, then that is discrimination against whoever the majority is considered. I could care less if I have a white, black, Hispanic, native American, Inuit, gay, lesbian, transgender, whatever of a controller, as long as they know what they are doing because they went through a proper training facility.

r Theoretically, any Joe Schmo is supposed to be on a level playing field as someone who just graduated from ours or any other CTI school. The computer will however give some preference to "aviation experience", but what constitutes experience is yet to be found out. So if you have held a steady job and have gone to a college of some sort for a combination of the two for 4 years or more, you are set to apply. That college education could be in the art of clownery btw.


http://www.natca.org/about.aspx?zone=About%20NATCA&pID=241


from your link

 "All applicants will be evaluated against the same set of qualification standards. Specifically, applicants must have at least 3 years of progressively responsible work experience, a 4 year degree, or a combination of the two"

i dont think any joe schmo walking off the street with no experience and no schooling is gonna be on the same level field.


semp

edit:  you are mad because you thought going to that school was almost a guaranteed job, I understand.  I was just passed over for promotion even though i have more than 10 years of experience over the candidate that was selected.  I have proven I can do the job with my eyes closed.  do I think they made a bad choice in getting her over me?  nope, she actually is a good employees. why didnt they choose me?  because I am 49 years old and she's 25.  did it upset me?  you bet.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 10:10:27 PM by guncrasher »
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline flight17

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Re: FAA Changes Hiring Process...
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2014, 10:12:55 PM »

from your link

 "All applicants will be evaluated against the same set of qualification standards. Specifically, applicants must have at least 3 years of progressively responsible work experience, a 4 year degree, or a combination of the two"

i dont think any joe schmo walking off the street with no experience and no schooling is gonna be on the same level field.


semp
and the two sentences right after the ones you highlighted... A four year degree is not required though. Any combination of time can be done as long as it adds up to four years and includes college and work. So someone with 3.5 years of work experience and a semester of college CAN apply and get hired.
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: FAA Changes Hiring Process...
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 10:23:27 PM »
and the two sentences right after the ones you highlighted... A four year degree is not required though. Any combination of time can be done as long as it adds up to four years and includes college and work. So someone with 3.5 years of work experience and a semester of college CAN apply and get hired.

you said it yourself.  "theoretically".  as in:

I have 35 years worth of work experience.  theoretically I qualify and could get the job, but if they compare me to you, guess who gets the job.   want to make a bet?


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline NatCigg

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Re: FAA Changes Hiring Process...
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 09:48:12 AM »
quit trying to take our kids jobs  :old:

Offline Gman

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Re: FAA Changes Hiring Process...
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, 03:57:03 PM »
Very similar things happened with the ATC program here in Canada back in the 90's.  I was hired in the enroute stream, IFR controller at Winnipeg Center in central Canada in 1993.  I was only 19 when I got in, the next youngest was in his late 20's, and most were recently laid off Canadian Airlines pilots looking for work.  The system was tried and true, and worked well, and had very VERY tough pass rates, and nobody from my class of 30 passed the IFR final evaluations on their first pass, although two of us were close, I had to re do a single eval portion.  

Then, there was a big corruption scandal over the union pulling crap like scheduled sick days and the like, and the federal minister of transportation was sacked and they decided to privatize then entire ATC system to a company called "Nav Canada", which implemented many of the so called "progressive" changes that the current US ATC system is planning.  It didn't work out so well.  Now, the standards are far lower, plus the pay is less, and training is actually paid for by the student - ridiculous.  That was there idea to counter the low standards they had brought about with their rule changes - "hey, if we make the students have to pay for the training, and don't pay them a wage for nearly a year, then we'll know we have people who REALLY want to be here".  

I'm glad I got out when I did, although I do miss that lifestyle back in the mid 90's.  Back then you could fly in the jump seat in the cockpit with most of the airlines here in Canada, and fly cheaply or free much of the time.  Those little benefits of respect from the crew/airline are long gone, but it was nice while I had it.

This new hiring policy by the FAA will fail, I am absolutely certain.  I've had a variety of excellent and difficult education opportunities - studied in college, university, been trained by the best people in the SOCOM community while working for SigArms Academy, did a ton of training in adult learning as an instructor for two of the largest private military companies around - none of it compared, even by a slim margin, to the amount of work, focus, ability, and luck that it takes to pass any of the IFR ATC exams.  Heck, even the entry exams a massive amount here fail, like over 95% of applicants don't get by the first round of testing.  It's that hard.  I know I would have NO chance of passing it today if I had to do it over, and the only reason I got through was I was addicted to it, and studied at least 5 hours a night and 16 on the weekends when not in class, and I was young and in that "school" mode still.  Hiring joe blow off the street is not going to work, at all, as the dedication required is insane.  

The first day after playing some tapes of in flight emergencies and pilots on the comms as they are going down, to infuse the seriousness of our profession, they piled books higher than I could see on our desks.  I thought there was NO chance I could do all of this during the first 6 months course.  It was only the first 30 days worth of material.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 04:03:06 PM by Gman »

Offline Randy1

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Re: FAA Changes Hiring Process...
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2014, 10:05:24 AM »
A engineering recruiter told my son he has two things going against him, he is white and he is male.  Wait for Hilary to get elected and see how bad it gets.