P-38 2 x 2k bombs (reprise...)

[bozon]

I have always been a supporter of the perk-ordnance idea. Placing the free limit at 250kg/500lbs will leave most jabos with a viable free loadout. The 1000lbs are the real problem - the principal one is that it brings the fighters into the regime of the medium bombers. Perk the 1000lbs and medium bombers may see a boost in their tactical role. The other is that 1000lbs bust GVs so easy due to the large blast radius. With 500 lbs, aiming needs to be better in order to surgically bomb a vehicle.

There will need to be some exceptions, because if the free 250kg/500lbs rule is applied to bombers, Some dive bombers will have a problem - for example, the SBD, whose main loadout is a single 1000lbs AP bomb and if that is taken, a free SBD will be even more useless than it already is. So for bombers there is room for some consideration, but fighters need everything over 250kg/500lbs perked.

The actual cost can be kept cheap - 1 perk per 1000lbs bomb still allow one to roll a typhoon or a P-51 and go on a 2-perk suicide mission. Under a perked ord system, by all means, add the 2000lbs for the P-38.

[save]

same go for minengeschoss and HVAP / volfram AP shots.

Then, a 190F8 would be pretty useless in its attack role paying perks for AT rockets and its 1000 bomb

[icepac]

I'm all for realism in loadout as long as the flight parameter restrictions are also imposed.

If the P38 only dropped 2000 pound bombs in level bombing, then htc could code that the bomb get's stuck and cannot be dropped when you yank around the plane or are diving it beyond a few degrees angle.

I also think F3 mode (ez chair 30 yards behind plane with unrealistic view) should only be available on bombers if you are in positions other than the pilot.

[Karnak]

same go for minengeschoss and HVAP / volfram AP shots.

Then, a 190F8 would be pretty useless in its attack role paying perks for AT rockets and its 1000 bomb

Nobody has suggested perking rockets.

If the P38 only dropped 2000 pound bombs in level bombing, then htc could code that the bomb get's stuck and cannot be dropped when you yank around the plane or are diving it beyond a few degrees angle.

That ought to cause the bombs to tear the shackles off the P-38.  They weren't strong enough to hold 2000lbs in any sort of maneuvers.  The braces would also punch holes in the aircraft as the bomb shifted.

[icepac]

I thought about shackles tearing off but why not saddle the unrealistic flier with having to fly with the bomb attached until he lands and ends sortie?

[Karnak]

I thought about shackles tearing off but why not saddle the unrealistic flier with having to fly with the bomb attached until he lands and ends sortie?

Agreed.  I am sure there are other aircraft that would lose bombs and shackles as things already are.

[SirNuke]

same go for minengeschoss and HVAP / volfram AP shots.

Then, a 190F8 would be pretty useless in its attack role paying perks for AT rockets and its 1000 bomb

dude I like you but stop feeling so persecuted, it saddens me

[Tank-Ace]

Karnak, been away from the house for the weekend, but just checked.

The only US fighters that do not carry a 250lb or smaller bomb are the: P-39D, P-39Q, P-40C, P-40E, P-40F, P-40N, P-47D-11, and the P-47M

All variants of the F4U can carry a 250lb lb bomb, as can the F6F, all P-38's, P-51's, and all P-47's save the M and D-11.


Infact, here is a list of all fighters in the game that carry 250lb or smaller bombs, and total ordnance capacity using those bombs:

A6M-2: 220lbs
A6M-5b: 220lbs
110G-2: 440lbs
190F-8: 440lbs
F4F-4: 200lbs
FM2: 200lbs
F4U-1: 250lbs
F4U-1A: 250lbs
F4U-1C: 500lbs
F4U-1D: 500lbs
F4U-4: 500lbs
La-5FN: 440lbs
La-7: 440lbs
Mosquito VI: 1000lbs
P-38G: 500lbs
P-38J: 500lbs
P-38L: 500lbs
P-47D-25: 500lbs
P-47D-40: 500lbs
P-47N: 500lbs
P-51B: 500lbs
P-51D: 500lbs
Spitfire XVI: 500lbs
Typhoon: 500lbs


Basically, using bombs alone, the Mossie is the only fighter capable of carrying 1000lbs. The USA dominates the list with 15 of 22 fighters able to carry free ordnance under your proposed restrictions. UK is second with 3 aircraft. Russia, Japan, and Germany are tied for last place with two fighters each.

And I guarantee I can pretty accurately rank which fighters will be used most often:

P-51D
P-38L
F4U-1D
P-47D-40
Mosquito VI
Typhoon
La-7
Spitfire XVI


Now think about that: Do you REALLY want to further increase the P-51D's usage even further? I mean for bombs alone, its tied for second greatest ordnance capacity. Hell, the La-7, probably the best fighter on this list, is just as viable an option for a JABO raid as the 110 is. Do you really want a horde of La-7's or Spitfire XVI's flying NOE alongside those lancaster?


Because I sure as hell don't. Just a bad idea in general.

[Karnak]

As I said, I prefer the 500lb/250kg mark, but given that coincides with my usual fighter's max individual bomb size I said 250lb on a whim to avoid looking like I was favoring the Mossie.

500lb/250kg I think works better anyways, and keeps the bombers more valuable.

[Tank-Ace]

The thing is that the 250lb bombs already favors the Mossie to the same degree as 500lb bombs do. Perhaps more so, given that there are even fewer viable options.

I would like to see a 190F-8 update before we got this though, just so the F-8 could remain a competitive fighter bomber, as in real life.

[Ack-Ack]

Some people need to lower their sense of 'elitism' down a couple of notches, less they look like fools.

ack-ack

[SirNuke]

rockets aside maybe a limit could be found at 1000lb/500kg total for fighters. But then there is the mosquito and the 110, would they get the limitation also?

[bozon]

rockets aside maybe a limit could be found at 1000lb/500kg total for fighters. But then there is the mosquito and the 110, would they get the limitation also?

Make it a limitation per engine

The problem is not the total weight. A heavier stronger AC carried more ordnance. The issue is specific to the 1000 lbs bombs that were rarely used by fighter bombers and are standard loadout in AH. It should be emphasized again that no loadout option is to be removed and 1000 lbs will be available for a very minor perk cost.

Also, for this to work at all the system has to be extremely simple and uniform. So if 1000 lbs and above are perked, they should be perked for all planes rolling out of the FH at the exact same price.

It should be emphasized that perked planes and ordnance are free - as long as you bring the plane back to land. People tend to forget that and think that every sortie in a perked plane means perks lost. By all means load the P-51D with 2*1000 lbs, just don't commit suicide and you'll get your perks back. If you plan to repeatedly fly into the acks to pork as many structures on the base before the acks or players kill you, consider doing so with 500 lbs bombs...

[Randy1]

The 1000lbs are the real problem - the principal one is that it brings the fighters into the regime of the medium bombers. Perk the 1000lbs and medium bombers may see a boost in their tac
The actual cost can be kept cheap - 1 perk per 1000lbs bomb still allow one to roll a typhoon or a P-51 and go on a 2-perk suicide mission. Under a perked ord system, by all means, add the 2000lbs for the P-38.

Keep in mind the hanger represents lost aircraft or equipment not lost buildings.  Put unoccupied airplanes and equipment out on the ground to be strafed and bombed solves the big bomb problem wouldn't you think.  Rockets and 500# bombs would be the common load out then.

It is either that or score partial damage on buildings and increase the damaged and downtime.

Lots of coding in either case in a time when people are demanding better graphics.