German Iron

[GScholz]

An original, flying, Junkers-powered Dora would be one of the most priceless artifacts on Earth.

[Blinder]

An original, flying, Junkers-powered Dora would be one of the most priceless artifacts on Earth.

And that is your opinion. I have recently argued on this forum for the preservation and dry berthing of the last dreadnought era capital ship left afloat on the planet. Instead politics and apathy have earmarked her to continue to degrade, flood and eventually require to be scrapped in place. However, not many people share the same passion and enthusiasm for old machinery that we do. Heck, I got a raft of crap from WWII enthusiasts on this board for even bringing up the notion of using federal funds to save the USS Texas.

So it stands to reason that if most people regard the Texas as an old piece of junk not worth saving then most of them will also find no cause or reason to salvage an old airplane that has no practical value here in the 21st Century. As one person emailed me and said: "You can always still look at it in pictures." Now the argument from some on here will be the cost of saving one Dora-9 versus the cost of saving a 32,000 ton battleship but the principle is still the same. It's only worth what its worth to the eye of the beholder. And though I agree with you, she would be priceless ( I feel the same way about Kermit Weeks' B-26 Marauder down in Polk City ) there are far more people out there who will infuriate you by seeing no value in her whatsoever. 

[GScholz]

I am also in the camp that is against using public funds to keep historic aircraft flying. Same with the Texas unless the USN can find a place for her in their museum budget (if they have one). I meant that a flying, original 190D would be a priceless artifact for the private collectors market. However, it would be no more right to spend public money on restoring a 190D to flying condition, than on an old Ferrari, or a battleship for that matter. The biggest problem for a 32,000 ton battleship is the enormous cost involved. It's hard to justify when there are people in need.

[mtnman]

And that is your opinion. I have recently argued on this forum for the preservation and dry berthing of the last dreadnought era capital ship left afloat on the planet. Instead politics and apathy have earmarked her to continue to degrade, flood and eventually require to be scrapped in place. However, not many people share the same passion and enthusiasm for old machinery that we do. Heck, I got a raft of crap from WWII enthusiasts on this board for even bringing up the notion of using federal funds to save the USS Texas.

So it stands to reason that if most people regard the Texas as an old piece of junk not worth saving then most of them will also find no cause or reason to salvage an old airplane that has no practical value here in the 21st Century. As one person emailed me and said: "You can always still look at it in pictures." Now the argument from some on here will be the cost of saving one Dora-9 versus the cost of saving a 32,000 ton battleship but the principle is still the same. It's only worth what its worth to the eye of the beholder. And though I agree with you, she would be priceless ( I feel the same way about Kermit Weeks' B-26 Marauder down in Polk City ) there are far more people out there who will infuriate you by seeing no value in her whatsoever.  

Personally, I see all of the objects you mention as highly valuable, and definitely worth saving; I just don't see it as a good use of public funds.

Not feeling that it's appropriate to spend our tax dollars to preserve something is not synonymous with regarding it as an old piece of junk not worth saving.

[ReVo]

I am also in the camp that is against using public funds to keep historic aircraft flying. Same with the Texas unless the USN can find a place for her in their museum budget (if they have one). I meant that a flying, original 190D would be a priceless artifact for the private collectors market. However, it would be no more right to spend public money on restoring a 190D to flying condition, than on an old Ferrari, or a battleship for that matter. The biggest problem for a 32,000 ton battleship is the enormous cost involved. It's hard to justify when there are people in need.

The money required to save the ship is a drop in the bucket for the federal government. Some things that have no "practical purpose" are still worth doing.

[GScholz]

How many such "drop in a bucket" projects before it becomes a significant part of the bucket's content? Slippery slope. If people want it, then people will pay for it. If they don't then it is not worth it. I'd pay to see the Texas if I was in the neighborhood.

[Blinder]

How many such "drop in a bucket" projects before it becomes a significant part of the bucket's content? Slippery slope. If people want it, then people will pay for it. If they don't then it is not worth it. I'd pay to see the Texas if I was in the neighborhood.

Go and take a stroll along her deck. Touch the 14 inch guns and take her all in. Then look at the pics of the young American faces who first shimmied up her cage masts to spot gunnery splashes or who toiled for hours on end shoveling coal into her boilers decks below. These young men sacrificed their freedom willingly to preserve ours from March of 1914 until April of 1948. For 34 years of American history and some of the darkest days of that history this sentinel stood guard over our coastlines and these men knew that at anytime they could lose their lives in the agony of twisted burning metal or cold salty rushing water.

If anything in this country deserves to be saved with taxpayer money this dreadnought is at the top of the list. if for nothing else, than to preserve the legacy that these men left behind. They called this ole gal their home and the took so much pride in her that had absolutely nothing to do with personal gain or profit.  I'm sorry GScholz. I do respect your position and your reasoning but I cannot , in my heart or mind, bring myself to agree with you.

I'm all for releasing federal fund to dry berth her and I always will be. And if God ever chooses to bless me with a windfall such as a big lottery hit then go ahead and keep one eye on San Jacinto, Texas. ..... Because you can take it to the bank that a huge chunk of what I win will see that beautiful girl preserved.

[Oldman731]

If anything in this country deserves to be saved with taxpayer money this dreadnought is at the top of the list. if for nothing else, than to preserve the legacy that these men left behind.

Reasonable minds can differ.  Given a finite amount of funds, I'd prefer saving the USS Olympia: 

http://www.phillyseaport.org/olympia

Unhappily, it's beginning to look like the Olympia will wind up as a home for fish.  http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/07/05/work-continues-to-save-historic-uss-olympia/

- oldman

[Widewing]

Reasonable minds can differ.  Given a finite amount of funds, I'd prefer saving the USS Olympia: 

http://www.phillyseaport.org/olympia

Unhappily, it's beginning to look like the Olympia will wind up as a home for fish.  http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/07/05/work-continues-to-save-historic-uss-olympia/

- oldman

Agree... Olympia is a far more important ship than the Texas in respect to it's history. She represents the United States emerging as a world power. She's the last of Theodore Roosevelt's Great White Fleet. Failure to preserve this historic treasure shows how myopic and incompetent the Federal government has become. The waste on the F-35 program alone would have paid for the preservation of Olympia, Texas and buy the land for four important Civil War battlefields, as well as the upkeep for 25 years.

The waste of taxpayer dollars is criminal. This is what happens when the government grows out of control. Very few in government would be successful in the private sector, which is why the incompetent and lazy flock to gov't work. The private sector rewards on performance alone. If you're inept, your career won't survive very long. I say this because of 35 years of being in the corporate private sector, dealing with gov't employees, the bulk of which are hopelessly inept. If stupid were contagious, we'd have to burn Washington to prevent the spread of it....

[Blinder]

Agree... Olympia is a far more important ship than the Texas in respect to it's history. She represents the United States emerging as a world power. She's the last of Theodore Roosevelt's Great White Fleet. Failure to preserve this historic treasure shows how myopic and incompetent the Federal government has become. The waste on the F-35 program alone would have paid for the preservation of Olympia, Texas and buy the land for four important Civil War battlefields, as well as the upkeep for 25 years.

The waste of taxpayer dollars is criminal. This is what happens when the government grows out of control. Very few in government would be successful in the private sector, which is why the incompetent and lazy flock to gov't work. The private sector rewards on performance alone. If you're inept, your career won't survive very long. I say this because of 35 years of being in the corporate private sector, dealing with gov't employees, the bulk of which are hopelessly inept. If stupid were contagious, we'd have to burn Washington to prevent the spread of it....

Agreed. I would love to see both of these magnificent vessels dry berthed. How is it that the Japanese can find the funds to ensconce the Mikasa in a protective concrete berth but we can't do the same here for our national treasures? Sad sad indeed.

Along those lines. I think Mr. Nugent here is pretty spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St10cjrwydo&feature=player_embedded

[ReVo]

How many such "drop in a bucket" projects before it becomes a significant part of the bucket's content? Slippery slope. If people want it, then people will pay for it. If they don't then it is not worth it. I'd pay to see the Texas if I was in the neighborhood.

We're not talking about every "drop in a bucket" project. We're talking about an important piece of history, the last of it's kind. Try something besides the slippery slope argument.

[GScholz]

If people want it they will pay for it. If they're unwilling to pay for it, they don't want it. The question is does its historical significance matter to enough people to justify the cost? I'm guessing the answer is no.

[Blinder]

If people want it they will pay for it. If they're unwilling to pay for it, they don't want it. The question is does its historical significance matter to enough people to justify the cost? I'm guessing the answer is no.

Yeah and this "no" answer has been brought to you by the same wayward and misguided majority that blows their money left and right on Miley Cyrus and Justin Beiber and voted twice for Obama because they got free stuff. Yeah, these are the clowns we want deciding whether or not we get to keep our heritage, our history and our national treasures. 

[GScholz]

Democracy in action.

[Bodhi]

Owning and operating warbirds goes far beyond the sticker price.  Hangar expenses, insurance, annual maintenance, preventative maintenance, actual maintenance (when things break), spares acquisition, and operational costs are just a sampling of what you can expect to pay.  When I owned my T-6, the fuel bill for a 2 hour jaunt was upwards of $450.00 at the costs then.  That did not include the costs I needed to set aside for engine and prop overhaul, maintenance, and insurance costs.  Start pushing it into the more exotic and rare aircraft and the costs go up exponentially.