Author Topic: For you current and former Police Officers...  (Read 2019 times)

Offline guncrasher

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2014, 12:53:40 AM »
first time I saw the video, I noticed the old man had a cane and not a gun. 


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Offline Slash27

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 01:03:29 AM »
It is certainly a tragic event.  Tragic all the way around.    :(  

I understand how the officer mistook the cane for a gun.  There are all kinds of discussion points that could be had from this encounter.  Thousands of them.  

Having been a volunteer law enforcement over 8 years now, I've seen a lot of bad things and witnessed many more things that were a slit second from going the same way that very encounter happened.  It isn't fun.

Hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20.  If it were to have been me in that scenario I would like to think I'd have not fired so quickly, but again I can see how the officer would have thought the driver grabbed a shotgun instead of a cane.  With my training and experience I'd probably have drawn, started closing the gap, and be hollering commands for him to XYZ.  But again, hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20.  I doubt I would have fired that quickly and that many times, I'm much more of a "aim, squeeze, shoot, repeat" kind of guy.  I don't go for the rapid fire crap being taught at the academies.    

Some things the younger guys need to be taught is that 40+ years ago it would almost SOP for drivers to get out of their cars, at least here in rural midwest.  Heck, when I was in high school in the late 80's I got out of my car when pulled over by LEO's and never one was scolded back in to the car.  Now, it is standard that the drivers stay in their car.  Period.  Unless called back.  It is "for their safety", and "officer safety", too.  This older timer got out of his car, newer/younger COP saw it as a challenge (probably. He was taught that). The old timer reached in to the back of his truck and pulled out when appeared to be a long arm, when in fact it was a cane to help him walk back and meet the COP half way like he had done 40 years ago, etc.

I will not fault the COP.  I am not giving him a free ride, but having been in his shoes enough times I understand the predicament.  I will not fault the driver, he did nothing wrong.  This is just a horrible thing.

 

I agree. I feel he was too quick on the trigger but that's pretty easy to say sitting here in my chair. God I hope that old man recovers.

The awful truth is you never know what you're going to run in to and mistakes in that field cost lives.
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Offline danny76

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 03:47:07 AM »
Tragic video with a clearly over reacting officer. Apart from his terrible shooting and poor judgment, the issue is clearly that you simply do not know what you are facing in any traffic stop. I policed unarmed in the UK for a number of years and can think of only a couple of occasions in the thousands of incidents that I dealt with, where I would have wanted a firearm, and none where I needed one.

If you are going to allow the entire populous to be armed then incidents such as this are going to happen. When an LEO is expecting to perceive a gun rather than a stick because more people carry weapons than walking sticks. The problem is that when officers use a grntly gently approach you get the Texas situation with an AR15 armed lunatic killing an officer because he was reticent about using force.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2014, 05:03:33 AM »
. Deleted due to presence of several morons.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 07:19:07 AM by Rich46yo »
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Offline Thruster

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2014, 06:05:55 AM »
Yeah I can walk down my block and point out 3 guys who tell the champagne bottle story. Pretty sure every goof that's pinned on a badge has had a civilian try to make a phone look like a gun. Happens every day....seemingly. They really do start to believe that crap. That's why leo's should be allowed 5 year contracts max. Any longer rots their brains.

Fact is this putz had an old man stopped, lit up brighter than daytime, with is wife next to him. If he didn't notice the limp he needs reassignment. If he was surprised that a limping old guy would reach for anything BUT a cane he needs to be fired. Showing remorse after screwing the pooch is not a reason to allow somebody with judgement that poor to run around armed.


Offline Rich46yo

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2014, 07:18:07 AM »
See above last post.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 07:20:06 AM by Rich46yo »
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2014, 07:55:38 AM »
After reading this thread, I have a few blanket statements-

First, give yourself some dignity and do not call LEO's "pigs".  It degrades the user of the term far worse than using it to label a LEO.

From there, I again remind everyone who is judging that they have the luxury of hindsight, your chair, and Hollywood movies to base your opinions on.  Oh, mind the lack of experience, too.  

Someone mentioned the driver was "lit up brighter than daytime", I'd like to point out that no he wasn't.  The flashing lights, shifting shadows (other traffic, glare, reflection, etc), and noise can all play tricks on your eyes.  Trust me.  Go back and listen to the passing cars for the noise and pay attention to how the lighting changes.  No, it isn't giving the LEO a free pass but what some are claiming as "obvious", isn't. Again, hindsight is 20/20.  Never forget that.  We can sit here and say "He should have...", or "I would have...", etc.  The LEO didn't have that luxury.

"This is what happens when the cop was: 1) Poorly trained; 2) Overly paranoid and frightened.; 3) Unable to use reasoning skills under stress" - 1> The LEO probably had 12-15 weeks of nothing but training in laws, scenarios, communication skills (PR), weapons (5+ weeks alone), first aid, etc, etc. He was highly trained, but possibly/probably short on experience. I do not know. 2> Paranoid and frightened?  Perhaps, I don't blame him. It is not easy being around people that would rather slit your throat than look at you on a consistent basis. 3> Unable to reason under stress??? Too quick on the draw? Maybe. Even though I've been in enough situations similar and I have not drawn and fired, I will not fault the LEO. He did what he thought he needed to do. On the average, officers have less than a second or two to make life saving decisions.  For this one video that turned very bad for both the driver and the LEO I can show you dozens more videos that turned out very bad for a complacent LEO due to a hostile driver.  

For those of you spouting off on the LEO's lack of accuracy- I say *again* that under stress the motor skills go to Hell.  Try it sometime.  Stand on a firing line, 7 yards from your target, and have your buddy stand behind you maybe 20 or 30 yards back and shoot a paintball gun at your back.  Tell me how good your groups are when someone is firing at you.  No, this LEO wasn't being fired at but he thought he was going to be fired upon.  As far as his accuracy goes he fired 8 times in a short span at a target 20+ yards, under the stress of "driver is going to shoot". It is the same -hair standing on the back of the neck- feeling when the adrenaline kicks in.  I've only been shot at with simunitions and paintballs.  They both hurt like a **** and I knew I wasn't going to die if I got hit, but my accuracy went to Hell in a hand basket when I heard that "pop pop pop" of the sim-/paintball gun.  Breathing becomes harder, vision becomes tricky, fingers get heavy and actions become delayed.  Oh, and the mind and the body don't always communicate worth a hoot, either.  Been there and done that.  FWIW, try hitting a target at 20+ yards with 8 shots in under 3 seconds without any stress.  See how well you do.   ;)    

My biggest pet peeve with how LEO's are trained is the "rapid fire" in which they/we are taught. I've disagreed with more than one instructor on the pace of what is and is not an appropriate rate of fire in different scenarios.  Mind you, I did it off the line in order to not show disrespect and I did it in a discussion and not a debate format.      

« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 07:59:27 AM by SmokinLoon »
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Offline GScholz

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2014, 11:24:21 AM »
Clearly a wrongful shooting. Just like the incident in Texas last year where a cop opened fire on a driver for getting his wallet out in a very similar situation. That cop unintentionally missed. That cop was fired. If Mr. Canipe does not survive this cop committed manslaughter imho, and like all the others he should be charged.

https://www.google.no/search?q=cop+manslaughter


Non-lethal alternatives, yes. Warning shots, yes. Police should not be allowed to use deadly force unless they or other members of the public are being fired upon.
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2014, 11:36:00 AM »
No rational human being can recover mentally from shooting an old man and his walking stick, I feel sorrow for both parties watching this film, it really is a tragedy.

On a side note, It makes me glad that British police officers are unarmed (with guns) along with the day to day general public. Over-reacting/Panicking with a tazer and pepper spray is less likely to kill.
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Offline smoe

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2014, 11:46:19 AM »
I would have to question the officers eye site. Not being able to see far things clearly would be a likely cause for mistaking a cane for a shotgun.

Offline WWhiskey

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2014, 11:46:59 AM »

This is what happens when the cop was:
1) Poorly trained
2) Overly paranoid and frightened.
3) Unable to use reasoning skills under stress



Exactly right,   If you don't understand the risk involved, don't take the job, more testing and more training  before armed police should be allowed out in public,   Weapons locked up in the car might help to make the officer think before he acts,,  no need for a sidearm to give out a traffic ticket!   Just my two cents,  

« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 11:59:36 AM by WWhiskey »
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Offline colmbo

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2014, 11:53:23 AM »
Police should not be allowed to use deadly force unless they or other members of the public are being fired upon.

Really?  So you're going to wait until the guy pulls the trigger before you defend yourself.  Yeah right.   Spoken like someone who has never been there.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2014, 12:01:35 PM »
I've been there, though wearing a different uniform... And the guys who sometimes took shots at us were Bosnian Serb militants with some serious firepower. We were not allowed to shoot first. The Police in my country are also not allowed to shoot first unless they've been cleared to do so by the police chief. They're not even allowed to take their guns out of their patrol cars unless given permission by radio, or unless the criminals are firing on them or others.
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2014, 12:25:07 PM »
I've been there, though wearing a different uniform... And the guys who sometimes took shots at us were Bosnian Serb militants with some serious firepower. We were not allowed to shoot first. The Police in my country are also not allowed to shoot first unless they've been cleared to do so by the police chief. They're not even allowed to take their guns out of their patrol cars unless given permission by radio, or unless the criminals are firing on them or others.
Norway ,,sounds nice
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: For you current and former Police Officers...
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2014, 12:32:47 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 01:48:49 PM by Skuzzy »