Murder or Duty?

[Old Sport]

If after non-compliance the fellow vocally threatened to kill the LEOs (which evidently led to the several hour standoff) then I would think this was not merely a case of resisting arrest by a squatter. I'd think the LEOs would be forced to arrest him at some stage.

http://krqe.com/2014/03/21/apd-officer-involved-shooting-was-justified/

If he did vocally threaten to kill them, then picking up a bag, etc, and especially showing knives if he did so, did not seem to be a particularly good idea. If the LEOs on the scene knew he had a criminal background, including knifings and assault on an officer, then they would certainly be on edge. The fellow apparently had a history psychological problems and does not seem particularly on the ball in the video clip, with regrettable results.

The final moments of the attempted arrest, on the other hand, do seem to be a bit of a cluster to me.

[danny76]

The final moments of the attempted arrest, on the other hand, do seem to be a bit of a cluster to me.

^My take on this. It appeared to me that right until the point of opening fire the situation was reasonably well in hand, and heading towards the subject being subdued, as far as I can ascertain the use of force was spontaneous and excessive. It's apparent that the officers are equipped with non lethal solutions, bean bag rounds etc. Whilst I was not there, and can't know what they perceived it did not appear that the level of force used was warranted.

[nrshida]

The victim might well have been suffering from mental disease such as schizophrenia (more prevalent in homeless people). This really amplifies the limitations of the 'obey verbal instructions or force is used' approach.

[Thruster]

You guys really think Barney Fife, or the Keystone Cops for that matter, were just conceived out of thin air? It's a universal problem. Always has been. The camera pretty much tells the whole story. That's why it's so easy to convict a real citizen when they get caught on tape. The same holds (or should) for anybody breaking the law...or their sworn duty.

[Swoop]

Just a simple thing they teach in most police academies; the 21 foot rule.

Nah, you've just been watching 'Justified'.

[Rolex]

I can only remember one time (about 20 years ago) where police shot and killed someone in Japan. He was surrounded and being beaten by a gang. The Japanese police face people with knives all the time.

They use sasumata.



These are even in schools and I recall an incident where a whacko with knife was disarmed and held down by the principal and two women teachers using sasumata until the police arrived. No one was hurt.

The police also have shields.



These things have been around for centuries.

[Shamus]

Most folks don't understand the use of force continuum. The more militarized law enforcement becomes the more danger you can be in. The bottom line is that in this day and age if you disobey an order from a LEO no matter what the order you are playing with your life.

I am not going to form an opinion from just the video. I have investigated many shooting deaths, mostly involving Detroit officers, some are righteous some are not, but one thing is for sure, they are very complicated investigations.

shamus 

[Slate]

    No Tazer?  or did I miss something? What happened to trying all the non lethal ways first?

   The perp did move when he was facing all those guns and may have been going for a weapon. I don't have a problem when he was taken down by gunfire but why keep firing into the wounded body? Then your handy dog trainer must let the mutt play with his dead leg. Good JOB! 

    Camping is a crime! Get off the spawn or you shall be killed!

   

   

[GScholz]

See Rule #4

[Shamus]

See Rule #4

[Skuzzy]

I just need to add this as a topic one cannot bring to this board.  Even when warned, people still cannot resist violating the forum posting rules.

Rule #4 has been modified.  Wish there was another way.