Food for thought ...

[Simon]

Alluding to earlier comments in the thread, Fighter Ace was brought up as an example of what will happen if changes aren't made.

IMO, Fighter Ace was superior to any other WW2 dogfighting in almost every respect. There were dozens of efforts to appease, adjust and compensate in the last few years, many of which were actually pretty great. There was no shortage of brilliant ideas, and they were affected quickly. Some took, most fizzled, but none brought in more players - at least not on the long term.

In the end, just like with every other niche game on the internet, attrition will run its course. Face it folks, this genre is doomed. Baby boomers are aging, WW2 is fading and the new generation has more entertainment available than ever before - and most of it for free.

Absolutely this game is full of dweebs and stat-ho's. I'm actually glad they're here, because they're the reason the rest of us still are.

Enjoy it while it lasts, and try not to let others' behaviour ruin your fun.

Simon

[xPoisonx]

A little off topic, but tonight the free birds had a memorial flight for one of their own, despite being warned of dweeb interceptors, they flew at 20k guns cold, at least 30 planes, I was rook at the time and joined in their formation and to my surprise did not get shot at... Halfway through it picked up to maybe 50 planes, rook, knight, and bish 190s and even 262s flying in formation together. The reason no one shot at each other for easy perk points? It could be the same reason why some don't HO, or even shoot at dead stick planes, their own sense of (online) "honor" perhaps. There is no way to stop people from taking the easy way (I speak from experience.. aka shade killing) if they want, there is no accountability online that they have to worry about. Instead, if you just accept that people will be people and expect the worst, you can enjoy a fight more when you run into someone that doesn't use said tactics. Punishing people for taking the easy way will only make them leave in the end, and I think aces high needs all the players it can get right now.

[Changeup]

Alluding to earlier comments in the thread, Fighter Ace was brought up as an example of what will happen if changes aren't made.

IMO, Fighter Ace was superior to any other WW2 dogfighting in almost every respect. There were dozens of efforts to appease, adjust and compensate in the last few years, many of which were actually pretty great. There was no shortage of brilliant ideas, and they were affected quickly. Some took, most fizzled, but none brought in more players - at least not on the long term.

In the end, just like with every other niche game on the internet, attrition will run its course. Face it folks, this genre is doomed. Baby boomers are aging, WW2 is fading and the new generation has more entertainment available than ever before - and most of it for free.

Absolutely this game is full of dweebs and stat-ho's. I'm actually glad they're here, because they're the reason the rest of us still are.

Enjoy it while it lasts, and try not to let others' behaviour ruin your fun.

Simon

QFEpic Foreshadowing and my possible return to a normal life of TV and boredom.  Maybe they'll leave the BBS up for entertainment value...it's already become a free Cloud storage device for Arlos pics

[Wiley]

Alluding to earlier comments in the thread, Fighter Ace was brought up as an example of what will happen if changes aren't made.

IMO, Fighter Ace was superior to any other WW2 dogfighting in almost every respect. There were dozens of efforts to appease, adjust and compensate in the last few years, many of which were actually pretty great. There was no shortage of brilliant ideas, and they were affected quickly. Some took, most fizzled, but none brought in more players - at least not on the long term.

In the end, just like with every other niche game on the internet, attrition will run its course. Face it folks, this genre is doomed. Baby boomers are aging, WW2 is fading and the new generation has more entertainment available than ever before - and most of it for free.

Absolutely this game is full of dweebs and stat-ho's. I'm actually glad they're here, because they're the reason the rest of us still are.

Enjoy it while it lasts, and try not to let others' behaviour ruin your fun.

Simon

There is not a single thing in this post that is disputable.

Wiley.

[Arlo]

QFEpic Foreshadowing and my possible return to a normal life of TV and boredom.  Maybe they'll leave the BBS up for entertainment value...it's already become a free Cloud storage device for Arlos pics

Ew .... bitter AND estrogen filled. 

[glzsqd]

Alluding to earlier comments in the thread, Fighter Ace was brought up as an example of what will happen if changes aren't made.

IMO, Fighter Ace was superior to any other WW2 dogfighting in almost every respect. There were dozens of efforts to appease, adjust and compensate in the last few years, many of which were actually pretty great. There was no shortage of brilliant ideas, and they were affected quickly. Some took, most fizzled, but none brought in more players - at least not on the long term.

In the end, just like with every other niche game on the internet, attrition will run its course. Face it folks, this genre is doomed. Baby boomers are aging, WW2 is fading and the new generation has more entertainment available than ever before - and most of it for free.

Absolutely this game is full of dweebs and stat-ho's. I'm actually glad they're here, because they're the reason the rest of us still are.

Enjoy it while it lasts, and try not to let others' behaviour ruin your fun.

Simon

I hope for my own sake I lose interest in this game however, I don't think the genre is "doomed", for the same reason why race car games aren't doomed, people will always like cars and people will always like air planes. World War II fighter combat was the peak of manned air to air combat in most peoples eyes, and I don' think I've ever met air force vet or civilian pilot I isn't in awe of that time period. I personally don't see this game going under any time soon, which in a way frightens me.

[Volron]

QFEpic Foreshadowing and my possible return to a normal life of TV and boredom.  Maybe they'll leave the BBS up for entertainment value...it's already become a free Cloud storage device for Arlos pics

 

[nrshida]

QFEpic Foreshadowing and my possible return to a normal life of TV and boredom.  Maybe they'll leave the BBS up for entertainment value...it's already become a free Cloud storage device for Arlos pics

 

[dirtdart]

You speak as though the majority of people are just champing at the bit looking for training, but lack opportunity.  What leads you to that conclusion?

Please, show me the plethora of actionable ideas I missed.

Wiley.

I was surprised at how many were. I goes like this:

Country Channel: Dirtdart: How the hell did that guy do (insert something, its impossible)
Wiley: No, it is not.
Dirtdart B.S.
Wiley: Have you ever flown the K4?
Dirtdart: No, I only fly 'Merican rides.
Wiley: Well you know the Rate of Climb for the K4 can be over 5000 fpm.
Dirtdart: What is rate of climb.
Wiley: If you want we can go to the DA and I can show you a few things and give you some tips.
Dirtdart: Pretty "Wiley" of you thanks.

I get the above is silly, but I personally did not improve until I found the right squad. The went as a group to train in the DA, more to ensure squadmates survival, because in the end, the more guys you can keep in the air over an enemy base, the better off you are.

Back to the community, I saw some will bashing on country (on all three countries). Complaints, can't do this, can't do that. People get pretty irrational when they have not taken the time to learn the game or the set. It only takes one person in many cases to talk them back to earth, invest a few minutes, and set folks straight. I met a few in my last little two week stint.

You can get more with honey .....  teach a person to fish....

<S> Dirtdart

[bozon]

Ho'ing is the expected norm from 90% of the encounters I am involved with. 
Players with alt and E advantage run away from a 1-to-1 fight.
Players ditch, bail and even Alt-F4 to avoid being killed.   
Ramming is not uncommon.  Last night I had 5 enemy planes on me and one resorted to ramming me from above because he couldn't hit and he was so desperate to bring me down.

All of that has always existed to about the same level since I started playing this game some 13 years ago. HO tends to be loosely defined when you are the losing side. It was always like that - even historically. Ramming is almost never intentional and very difficult to pull off on purpose. In most cases it is the result of an over zealous attacker and a defender that is jerking his stick around in negative-G maneuvers. The ditch/bail thing is perhaps the only thing that increased a bit, but this is an artifact of the only real thing that changed - the gradual transition from a WWII historical sim to a PvP combat game. At least in spirit. There used to be an atmosphere of "role playing" that has faded quite a bit and replaced by raw competitiveness.

The game is what it is and reflects its community. The community was different in the past and may have been more to you liking then, or not. The important thing in a sand-box like this is to make your own game. Find a squadron of like-minded players and play in your own little bubble. Don't get involved in what you do not like. Not liking the ground war? Don't like defending against hordes? ignore it. Let them capture what they want. In most cases I welcome the map reset and can't lose bases fast enough to make it happen. Can't find a good furball? logout, do something useful with the rest of your day and come back tomorrow evening. AH is a world and sometimes nothing exciting is happening in the world.

New players don't spend any time in the training room - I pop in there occasionally, unlike when I first came to AH there never anyone there.  There always used to be trainers, not any more.  I've offered to help new players, a couple have even shown some enthusiasm, but never took me up on the offer.  There is little or no interest from new players from enjoying the spirit of the game as a simulation.

There are not enough new players to populate that room. Hopefully there will be a small influx after the next big update to the game.

If you want to educate the noobs and create atmosphere  - do it yourself. Noobs love missions and missions are the best way to educate them. So ditch the N1Ks/P38/110 smash-and-grab missions and post some interesting, sub-optimal setup and lead it: B17s with P-47 escorts, JU88s with 109E/F/G, a stuka raid, Mossies and typhoons NOE, SBD TBM and F4Fs from a carrier, etc. The tactical results do not matter one bit. If you club an obvious baby seal, salute him and PM him with a comment of what he did wrong, even if he was not playing by your rules (took a HO shot at you). PM/ch200 comments like "HAHA TAKE THAT HO TARD!" do not steer the community in the direction you want.

[Wiley]

Back to the community, I saw some will bashing on country (on all three countries). Complaints, can't do this, can't do that. People get pretty irrational when they have not taken the time to learn the game or the set. It only takes one person in many cases to talk them back to earth, invest a few minutes, and set folks straight. I met a few in my last little two week stint.

Could be.  My impression of the 'That's impossible!' guys is more one of stubbornness and unwillingness to change their opinion, but I'm more than willing to concede that could be my natural pessimism talking.

You can get more with honey .....  teach a person to fish....

<S> Dirtdart

...lead a horse to water...

The only thing we can control is our own behavior.  Helping where we can is important, not trash talking the new guys equally so, IMO.

 

Wiley.

[Pandora]

If you want it to change, you have to change.  

1.  If you don't help noobs, start.  Ask them every time you see them if they'd like to go to the TA, not the DA.  Create a culture
2.  If you get HOd a lot, ask someone how they pwn a HOer..  I suggest Morfiend, Dodger, BigRat, Creton, Jetsom, need I go on?
3.  If you don't like altfairies, F18SuperBrewsters, Spits and the Japanese Air Force, see #2. (Watched Creton and Nath flying an 84 and a k4 pwn two Brews last night repeatedly....great fights.  Ask them or someone for help
4.  If you don't like the jibberish on 200, detune it.
5.  If you don't like the style of fighting, get proficient in 3 planes:  the ugly, the turny and the fast.   That way you can get your revenge in any situation
6.  Never try to shoot down 999000.  Your nuts will be sore
7.  Don't practice hypocrisy.  Everyone sees it and you look foolish.  Goes to culture.  If you're an E fighter, wear it proudly, if you're a runner, fly those colors...cuz everyone knows the troof.
8.  For Gawds sake get tougher...it's a game.  If you get your panties ruffled over anything in this toon world, you need to talk to someone.  

Bottom line:  be part of the solution through your actions.  You'd be surprised how many people will be nice if you're nice.  Nice doesn't equal silence.  You can't silently change the culture in this game because we can't see anyone.  Leadership is about influence, not authority.


Edit:  I am not nice all the time.  I know this.  I will try harder

1. I have often tried to help new players.  I love helping new players, it allows me to put something back into the game as I got a lot of help when I was learning in FA.
2. I know how to get out of a HO'ing situation.  However, the ho'er usually just runs away after a failed ho and has no concept of how to actually fight.
3. Hmmm.
4. I never tune to 200.  I looked at it once, facepalmed and never went back.
5. The problem is getting 1 to 1 fights, or even small even numbers, where all the combatants are even slightly interested in playing a flight sim.
6.  Point taken, lol
7.  Hmmm.
8.  "Get tougher".  I used to play at a quite a high level in World of Warcraft which was more hardcore than AH has ever been or ever needs to be.

I have tried to be part of a solution.  The whole point of this thread was to generate interest from others who feel the same way.

[Pandora]

Ew .... bitter AND estrogen filled. 

I've seen more problems through OD testosterone.

[Arlo]

I used to play at a quite a high level in World of Warcraft which was more hardcore than AH has ever been or ever needs to be.

 

[Wiley]

If 'hardcore' is used in terms of 'psychologically abrasive', he's not wrong.  As much as we say this community's going to hell in a handbasket, it is NOTHING compared to other games.  Imagine a world where Manawar and Midway are a couple of the nicer, more interesting people you run into.


Wiley.