Hs-129 80 Tank Kills.

[bustr]

After reading the attack tactics for both the Hs129 and Ju87 G1\G2. I went offline with the Ju87 G2 against our tanks to see if the secret to the carbide core rounds is shooting under 100yds. I made my attack run at 1000ft from 1500yd out, diving in at 800yd, firing under 100yd. With the panzers and the M4, fly level into their side almost on the ground, fire under 100yd. You make a level approach to these tanks due to the flat side armor. You biggest danger is ripping your own tail off slapping it against the turret as you pull up for all of our tanks. That was one way Hs129 and Ju87 pilots were lost against the Russians.

Two factors dictated this tactic.
1. - Attacking at an angle that lines the rounds trajectory 90 degrees to the armor.
2. - Both the 30mm and 37mm carbide core round will penetrate up to 3in of armor under 100yd. 50yd-60yd was the most effective range for a one pass kill or disabling of a tank.

Shooting Results

Tiger I\II - 2 passes firing from 20 degree into the side under 100yds. Shooting at the change to -200 will result in up to 5 passes. Shooting the turrets is useless.

Panther - same as the Tigers, fewer extra passes.

T-34 Both - One shot at 30 degrees into the upper sloped 60 degree armor from the side shooting under 100yd. 3-4 passes other wise into the side. One shot was the historic number of passes a trained pilot needed to disable or kill the T-34's. It took for myself a lot of effort to achieve 2 one shot kills on both T-34. Most times I ended up hitting under the armor into the track area requiring up to 4 passes.

Panzers - 1 shot side under 100yd.
M3 Both - 1 shot side under 100yd.

I didn't test the 3 new jagdturtles or flack panzers since they have very thin side armor.

These results are very true to what happened in the real war with WW2 technology in force. In our game today you are very lucky any player in one of our tanks will not main gun shoot your Stuka out of the air almost every time you make a guns pass like this. If WW2 tanks could have rapidly acquired and lined up a bore shot at the Hs129 and Ju87 G1\2 like the tanks in our game can. Ruffer and Rudel would have been killed during their first week of sorties in Russia, and these planes would have been pulled from the front lines as useless coffins and tank fodder.

Ruffer - 80 tanks using this tactic.
Rudel - 519 tanks using this tactic.

[Oldman731]

Early on the problem for the pilots was the rules for verification of a destroyed tank.

Seems to me they never got around that problem.  While the physics may suggest that a hit with a certain shell at a certain range would be a certain kill, I am skeptical that a pilot could be confident of his precise range and angle of fire, especially under combat conditions.  They were scoring hits, not kills, and I don't imagine there's any way they could have done otherwise.

Good to know this, I've always questioned Rudel's claims.

- oldman

[bustr]

I guess Ruffer snuck up on the 80 tanks he destroyed and shot the crew in their sleep.......

[nrshida]

One Hs 129 pilot with BK 7,5 to get at a tank, flew down a building lined town street a few feet above the pavement and killed the tank with a shot inside of 100m.

Crikey what balls 

[bustr]

The BK 7,5 was capable of killing the Joseph Stalin tank. When shooting into the side of a T-34, it tore a 3ft dia hole. Firing only reduced air speed by 6mph. The unique mussel brake along with an adjusted powder load gave it good accuracy and didn't harm the modified airframe.

Hitech would have to introduce two versions of the Ms 129. A B2 with MK101 or MK103 and AP 20mm, or bombs only and AP 20mm. The MK103 had a higher rate of fire shooting the same ammo, 420rpm Vs. 260rpm, both guns from a 30 round drum. And a perked B3 with BK 7,5 with 12 rounds due to the one shot killing power of the BK 7,5 against tanks.

The B3 killing power would effectively make it a flying TigerII. I suspect an equal perk price would be fair. Can you imagine how the Hs 129 would get picked on by every red guy with a popgun for that?

[ReVo]

The BK 7,5 was capable of killing the Joseph Stalin tank. When shooting into the side of a T-34, it tore a 3ft dia hole. Firing only reduced air speed by 6mph. The unique mussel brake along with an adjusted powder load gave it good accuracy and didn't harm the modified airframe.

Hitech would have to introduce two versions of the Ms 129. A B2 with MK101 or MK103 and AP 20mm, or bombs only and AP 20mm. The MK103 had a higher rate of fire shooting the same ammo, 420rpm Vs. 260rpm, both guns from a 30 round drum. And a perked B3 with BK 7,5 with 12 rounds due to the one shot killing power of the BK 7,5 against tanks.

The B3 killing power would effectively make it a flying TigerII. I suspect an equal perk price would be fair. Can you imagine how the Hs 129 would get picked on by every red guy with a popgun for that?

I see no reason to perk it since a bomb will still be a far better choice for killing tanks. These things will be chewed up by the invisible laser rangefinder equipped Wirble's just like IL2's and JU87G2's.