New documentary about TWA flight 800

[gyrene81]

Wait... You don't understand why the CIA would be involved in the investigation of an airline disaster that potentially involved international terrorism?! Really?!

that agency supposedly isn't allowed to operate within the borders of the u.s. in such investigations they are supposed to be consulted but not directly involved in any investigations taking place within the country. that responsibility is supposed to go to the fbi and nsa.

but ya never know what is happening where when it comes to spy agencies...

Really... How do you know?

eyes and ears open, mouth shut is generally a good way to learn things...and i don't believe in "tinfoil hat conspiracy theories".

[GScholz]

Are you and Rich46yo the same person? You two keep answering the questions meant for the other...

The CIA would of course be interested in anything related to international terrorism... That's their thing, not the FBI's.



As "tinfoil hat conspiracy theories" go, this one fits right in.

What do you guys really believe? Who fired the missile, from where, and what kind of missile was it? Do you think [insert favorite badguy] managed to smuggle a large SAM system into the USA? Do you think [insert favorite badguy] fired a SAM from a boat close to a USN training area? Do you think the USN shot TWA 800 down by mistake and that every government agency from the NTSB to the FBI and CIA scrambled to protect some USN officers arses?

It's a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.

[gyrene81]

Are you and Rich46yo the same person? You two keep answering the questions meant for the other...

rich wears a tinfoil hat...


i have other methods...

The CIA would of course be interested in anything related to international terrorism... That's their thing, not the FBI's.

what did i say...you're not paying attention. the fact is, domestic issues are the domain of the fbi and in matters of national security the nsa. the cia is not supposed to operate within the borders of the country. prior to the implementation of the dhs, in issues of suspected international terrorist activities within the borders of the u.s., the cia would be consulted but weren't supposed to be directly involved in the investigations.

[Rich46yo]

This clown, and he has proven that, doesnt even live here and has no understanding of our laws or procedures, or anything in America for that matter, and he doesnt have the sense to shut his mouth and listen. That or just watch the damn documentary. Which answer the same questions he's asking.

Two people dont have to be the same person to know that in America the CIA is prevented, BY LAW, from investigations inside the borders when American citizens are involved. There was no reason for them to be involved other then the fact the FBI believed so strongly it was terrorism they asked for assistance. That or they needed an ally to support their bogus findings. It was a very unusual move because the two agencies dont often ask each other for anything. The FBI is fully capable and empowered to investigate foreign terrorism. They do it all the time you Dunderhead.

I dont claim to have any answers but for sure I have questions. One of which is why the hell a Norwegian is telling us whats what in our own country.

[guncrasher]

but the clown does understand how money is made.


semp

[GScholz]

This clown, and he has proven that, doesnt even live here and has no understanding of our laws or procedures, or anything in America for that matter, and he doesnt have the sense to shut his mouth and listen. That or just watch the damn documentary. Which answer the same questions he's asking.

Two people dont have to be the same person to know that in America the CIA is prevented, BY LAW, from investigations inside the borders when American citizens are involved...

The CIA does operate within the US. They used to do quite a lot of spying on domestic groups and other things that came out under the Church Committee, which resulted in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. It dictates what the CIA can and can not do within the US. The CIA can get involved in anything related to international matters, but nothing purely domestic. I.e. they can wiretap, follow suspected foreign agents in the US, even if they are US citizens, and they can investigate international terrorism within the US.

The act has been watered down a lot over the years, especially with the Patriot Act and the Protect America Act. So now it's even easier for the CIA to do things like in the pre-Church days.

The fact that I, a non-US citizen, know this and you, a US-citizen, don't... should tell you who the clown is.

I dont claim to have any answers but for sure I have questions...

And that's what makes it a conspiracy theory, and a cruel one at that for the relatives of the victims that are left wondering.

[gyrene81]

The CIA does operate within the US. They used to do quite a lot of spying on domestic groups and other things that came out under the Church Committee, which resulted in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. It dictates what the CIA can and can not do within the US. The CIA can get involved in anything related to international matters, but nothing purely domestic. I.e. they can wiretap, follow suspected foreign agents in the US, even if they are US citizens, and they can investigate international terrorism within the US.

The act has been watered down a lot over the years, especially with the Patriot Act and the Protect America Act. So now it's even easier for the CIA to do things like in the pre-Church days.

The fact that I, a non-US citizen, know this and you, a US-citizen, don't... should tell you who the clown is.

the fisa did not empower the agency to operate within the u.s. (didn't stop them either). the involvement is supposed to mean interagency cooperation within the u.s. borders, but the patriot act changed some things. to what extent the general public may never know. there is supposed to be some sort of oversight but, well, slap a national security stamp on it and all rules are off.

[GScholz]

Law rarely empower anyone; it usually just puts limitations on power.

From the horse's mouth itself:

"By law, the CIA is specifically prohibited from collecting foreign intelligence concerning the domestic activities of US citizens. Its mission is to collect information related to foreign intelligence and foreign counterintelligence. By direction of the president in Executive Order 12333 of 1981 and in accordance with procedures approved by the Attorney General, the CIA is restricted in the collection of intelligence information directed against US citizens. Collection is allowed only for an authorized intelligence purpose; for example, if there is a reason to believe that an individual is involved in espionage or international terrorist activities. The CIA's procedures require senior approval for any such collection that is allowed, and, depending on the collection technique employed, the sanction of the Director of National Intelligence and Attorney General may be required. These restrictions on the CIA have been in effect since the 1970s."

https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/faqs

[gyrene81]

Law rarely empower anyone; it usually just puts limitations on power.

From the horse's mouth itself:

"By law, the CIA is specifically prohibited from collecting foreign intelligence concerning the domestic activities of US citizens. Its mission is to collect information related to foreign intelligence and foreign counterintelligence. By direction of the president in Executive Order 12333 of 1981 and in accordance with procedures approved by the Attorney General, the CIA is restricted in the collection of intelligence information directed against US citizens. Collection is allowed only for an authorized intelligence purpose; for example, if there is a reason to believe that an individual is involved in espionage or international terrorist activities. The CIA's procedures require senior approval for any such collection that is allowed, and, depending on the collection technique employed, the sanction of the Director of National Intelligence and Attorney General may be required. These restrictions on the CIA have been in effect since the 1970s."

https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/faqs

maybe where you live it works that way...here, the more power you have the more law you can get and vice versa. you would find an average joe doing life for dealing pot before you would see a kennedy serving that kind of time.

and since when do you believe what is written on a spy agency faq? get real man.

[GScholz]

The vast majority of laws do not state what you can do. They state what you cannot do. It's a legal principle and an essential freedom in democratic societies: "That Which Is Not Forbidden Is Permitted."  So unless there are laws that expressly forbids or limits the CIA in doing certain things, then they can do so at will.


Do you really think the CIA is lying when they say they can operate within the US in cases of espionage and international terrorism?  If they said they couldn't do it I would be inclined to agree with you.

[FLOOB]

Just watched the film. It demonstrates that there is more evidence indicative of an external explosion than an exploding fuel tank ignited by faulty wiring. Terrorist use terrorism as a way to communicate and draw attention to their cause and demands, when possible I believe it would be beneficial to deny them that platform. Im sure other service members had experiences like that of Rich were they had knowledge of terrorism incidents that go unreported.

[MiloMorai]

Eye witness accounts are notoriously inaccurate.

The airliner that crashed in NYC shortly after 911 had witnesses saying there was flames coming from the a/c when in fact there was no flames.

[MiloMorai]

http://www.sandford.org/gandercrash/investigations/gander_paper/html/_cover_page.shtml

Lots of questions about the conclusions reached about the crash of ARROW AIR FLIGHT MF1285R that killed 246 American solders.