Ayn Rand

[Brooke]

Let's see, of the Board's top 100, I've read 9 (and possibly a few more that I think I've read but am not sure).

Of the Readers' top 100, I've read 21.

Of the Radcliff top 100, I've read 18.

Rand's works are less simplistic and juvenile than a bunch of those.  You have to consider that writing style and significance of content are not the same thing.  

[Brooke]

I have a 1957 Dayton Albatross with 250cc villiers engine

Ayn Rand would have loved it! 

[Karnak]

What component is that?

Children.

Think about it a bit and see if you can figure out why.

[Brooke]

Children.

Think about it a bit and see if you can figure out why.

I suspect (but correct me if I'm wrong) that you then don't mean that her novels are simplistic and juvenile for a lack of children, because most adult literature has a lack of children, and that you mean her philosophy or ideas are simplistic and juvenile because they do not integrate raising of children.

Would you then say that large parts of the philosophy from Kant, Nietzsche, Marx, Machiavelli, Socrates, Camus, Aristotle, Spinoza, Smith, Locke, and Engels, as just a handful of examples, are simplistic and juvenile for the same reason?

What works would you say are not simplistic and juvenile?

[pembquist]

With two of her novels listed #1 and #2 in the history of modern journalism, that would say a lot about how wrong your opnion is.
http://www.modernlibrary.com/top-100/100-best-novels/

Hmm, that would be the same "reader list" that has 3 books by the great L Ron Hubbard on it. Seems to say a lot about how bad a list it is.

Best quote regarding Ayn "The Kook" Rand:

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

[FLS]

Hmm, that would be the same "reader list" that has 3 books by the great L Ron Hubbard on it. Seems to say a lot about how bad a list it is.

Best quote regarding Ayn "The Kook" Rand:

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

A juvenile, simplistic book review, appealing to emotionally stunted and socially crippled adults.     

[Karnak]

I suspect (but correct me if I'm wrong) that you then don't mean that her novels are simplistic and juvenile for a lack of children, because most adult literature has a lack of children, and that you mean her philosophy or ideas are simplistic and juvenile because they do not integrate raising of children.

Would you then say that large parts of the philosophy from Kant, Nietzsche, Marx, Machiavelli, Socrates, Camus, Aristotle, Spinoza, Smith, Locke, and Engels, as just a handful of examples, are simplistic and juvenile for the same reason?

What works would you say are not simplistic and juvenile?

Some ask "Who is John Galt?"

I think the relevant question is "Who is John Galt Jr?"

She categorically ignores what happens next after her titans of human genius create their marvelous society.  She somehow expects us to believe that they, unlike all their predecessors, will not rig the game so as to keep their likely less brilliant offspring at the top.  It is what always happens and the only tool we have against such oligarchy is government of the people, by the people and for the people.  She praises the self made man, but ignores that the self made man, once he has made it, then proceeds to spend more effort rigging the system against possible competition from other self made men and we end up in a fuedal oligarchy type situation.  Honest, dynamic competition is what we ought to strive for and for that to be true we must maintain opportunity for all because we never know where the next Steve Jobs type will be born.

Thank you, but I will stand with Teddy Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and other such men and women on this one.

[Motherland]

Reading the thinly veiled and poorly executed piece of propaganda that is Anthem as a 15 year old is what turned me off from libertarianism and classical liberalism, which I was very into at the time. I mean I guess everyone goes through a phase.

Hmm, that would be the same "reader list" that has 3 books by the great L Ron Hubbard on it. Seems to say a lot about how bad a list it is.

No kidding :

[FiLtH]

 The books I read spent most of the time hammering her message. Im not opposed to alot of what she said, I just thought the stories were lame. Her romance sections in Atlas shrugged seemed to be crafted by a 50 year old virgin with no real life experiences to fall back on. Overall I see her as a bitter woman, angry at the world for not being as elite as she is, and damn it to hell if she will support them.

[Saxman]

Never gotten around to reading Rand, but from the descriptions I've seen I think I'll pass. I got enough propaganda slogging through Goodkind's series, though at least he bookended his philosophical filibusters between lots and lots of gratuitous sex. And a bit of violence.

[WWhiskey]

It must have been Nice to have time to read books not required by teachers
,if it wasn't homework, I was working on the farm from dawn till dusk everyday  from 8 years old till I joined the Army,,, I welcomed the vacation, seven years of 530am to 430pm five or six days a week and the occasional 45 day stint on the ranges in west Germany beat the heck out of all those hours on the farm,, didn't read Rand till after I'd watched a video of her being interviewed on sixty minutes,, she made a lot of sense then,, the books seemed a bit dumbed down to me, but the story was basic and clear,, social control breeds mediocrity, even apathy,,,social freedom breeds exceptionalism !   Just my two cents,,,

[zack1234]

I ate an Albatross once, it made such a racket

[danny76]

Not that kind of Albatross!  Anyways this is the wrong thread for the awesome, beautiful, and skilled Albatross.

See the thread titled "Midway..." if you want to be awed and inspired like me... and would like to join the higher cult of mortals for having seen the Albatross. 

PS: You can even watch a baby Albatross grow up right in front of you via live video feed from Hawaii. 

I think you misunderstand skill. Yes their inherent ability is impressive but I doubt it can be considered skill any more than a cat catching a bird

[Midway]

I think you misunderstand skill. Yes their inherent ability is impressive but I doubt it can be considered skill any more than a cat catching a bird

"But the albatross’ main skill that sets them apart from other flying species is without a doubt, dynamic soaring."
http://blogs.bu.edu/bioaerial2012/2012/09/30/the-albatross-the-master-of-dynamic-soaring/

Skill: The ability to do something well; expertise:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/skill

Now, do you too see the light?

Although this thread is for the great Ayn Rand (please see the OP).  If you still do not recognize the awesome skill of the beautiful Albatross, please see the thread titled "Dynamic soaring world record video".

I can certainly understand you accidentally posting here though since Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged revolved around the story of a man having found the secret to free and unlimited energy from nature and making a motor to harness it... and the awesome Albatross having found free energy and it being able to develop the skill to harness it while government scientists at NASA and the USAF stand in awe studying this beautiful and highly skilled living being hoping to, one day, imitate it.  

[Brooke]

Hmm, that would be the same "reader list" that has 3 books by the great L Ron Hubbard on it. Seems to say a lot about how bad a list it is.

It's easy to sneer derisively at L. Ron Hubbard because of scientology, but before scientology he was a highly regarded science-fiction author.  Have you read any of his books from the height of his science-fiction career?  Some of them are quite good and are considered both by readers and luminary writers to be classics in that field.

Also, the reader list that you turn your nose up at (because it contains works by Hubbard and Rand while containing a majority of picks in common with academic-oriented lists) is only one list.  Did you also look at the Radcliffe's list and see that two Rand novels appear on it?

I'm curious if you can tell us, since you are coming forth as a judge of what should and should not be on a list of the world's 100 best novels, how many of those 100 books have you read?  Do you have a good basis for comparison?  What are some books you would put on a list of 100 best novels?