A few general GV question

[Cremator]

Hello guys.


Which tank is best for ground pounding? Distance is something ive recently been playing with and is a general open question. Which has the best "effective" range? Ive recently found the thrill of ranging a base and taking out strat and such.  Also which type does the most damage on impact? I know my questions are fairly broad but I'm fairly simple minded and absorb each piece of information folks are willing to share. Thanks ahead of time....<S>

[WWhiskey]

It's hard to answer your question without knowing what the need is,
If your wanting to destroy objects with HE and such,,  the M-4/75 has a fast rate of fire, optional rockets and it's HE round is probably the most effective in the game.
The panzers are great for learning in tank v tank as well as bountiful perk earners,, the M-4/75 will also earn perks fast,
The t-34/75 is also good for tearing down a city but it has a slower rate of fire than the M-4,, it does make up for it with better ground speed and a better survivabilty factor
The T-34/85 is a good all around tank, a lot of players use it for tank v tank with great success,, it is an inexpensive hard hitting and durable peice of equipment

I'm fond of the M-18 and the M-4/76 more than most,, both have the same gun and can take out anything in the game from the side or rear, they are soft tho and will not survive much damage from anything with an even average gun,, they have decent rate of fire and the M-18 has speed over most anything in the game except the m-3/75 and the M-8,, it is best used to go around and attack. From the sides or behind,, Shoot,move,comunicate type stuff,, no sitting still in it or your toast,, also keep it out of sight of low flying planes,, it loses it's turret easily and most likely wil be killed with a few hits from most planes in the game,

The heavy hitters are the panther, tiger1 and 2
The tiger 1 has a slow rate of fire and a slow moving turret but it's gun will kill you with one shot if the gunner is good, it is strong out front,, it's really pretty strong all around,, it will pivot turn to help with its slow turret ,, it is best killed from the sides and or rear
The panther is faster firing and it's turret speed is improved as well,, also it gun range is much better in the vertical,, hull down/ up positions are best,, it's front is it's strongest area,, don't let anyone get by you or your toast tho,, it is weak in the sides and rear about like the panzer
The tiger 2 is just a beast,, big gun, long range' tough as nails all around,, keep a lookout for M-18s sneaking around you,, much like a 262,, if your in a Tiger 2 most people seem to forget everything else and try to kill you no matter the cost, I like to kill these with the M-18 from very close range directly behind and it usually takes a couple of shots

Hidden jewel--
The Sherman firefly,, in my opinion the most fun tank to use, slowest tank in the game but,,,great gun,(same as the 17lb gun on base) long range kill ability,, very soft tho like all M-4s,, the trick with it is to make sure know one knows that's what your in,
Other than its slow speed, the only thing bad about it is it's rangefinder is obscured when zoomed in, it's hard to hit targets at extreme range in the zoomed in position,, once you are used to it tho, you'll figure it out!

 Hope that helped,, I didn't add anything on the tank destroyers but they have the same respective guns of their German tanks do the ability to match as well as some good up front armor,, very soft in the sides tho

[Cremator]

Thats the insight I was looking for right there. Thanks for the reply. Its very helpful.

[SmokinLoon]

ok.  Here are some hard FACTS: in terms of pounding dirt the M4A3/75mm Calliope reigns supreme.  Everything else takes second and third place.  Here is why:

First, most of your typical targets have a 312 lb "hardness".  Meaning, they need 312 lbs of damage to be destroyed (town buildings, radar tower, ord bunkers, fuel tanks, barracks).  The second thing you're probably trying to destroy is anti-aircraft guns or 17 Pdr anti-tank guns, either way both can be taken care of with a single shot of near-miss HE or even a short burst of MG's.  Hangers are probably third and they have a hardness setting just shy of 2800 lbs.

Most tanks need 2 shots of HE to bring down the typical OBJ (object). The Firefly, M4A3/76, and M18 all need 3. The M8 needs 10 (iirc).  The Panzer IV on up to the King Tiger all need 2 shots.  So with that in mind simple math wins the day.  The two bigger factors here are rate of fire and the amount of ammo carried.  The King Tiger has the slowest reload rate in the game for a tank, and the M4A3/75mm has the fastest.  Oh, don't forget the 60/4.5in rockets the Calliope option brings to the field, they alone count for at least another 20+ buildings (it takes 3 rockets to bring down a building, but smart users will make full use of the splash damage).

Now for some hard stats to keep in mind.  The damage the HE shells of the T34/85mm, Tiger, and King Tiger give 234 lbs of damage. The HE damage the M4/75mm gives is 178 lbs. The Panther, Panzer IV's, T34/76mm (the T34/76 also has a horrid reload rate of 9 seconds), and LVT4 all give 156 lbs of HE damage. The LVT-4 is a bit of an eyebrow raiser since if fires the SAME exact HE round as the M4/75mm but yet doesn't get the credit.  The Firefly does 140 lbs of HE damage, and the M4/76mm and M18 both do 103 lbs of HE damage.  More hard stats to keep in mind: Reload rates.  The M4/75 reload rate is 4 seconds (and the 60 rockets fire on demand). The King Tiger is 10 seconds, the T34/85mm is 7.5 seconds, and the Tiger is 7 seconds.  Next, don't forget the amount of ammo that can be carried: The King Tiger gets 84 rounds, the Tiger gets 92 rounds, the T34/85 gets 60 rounds, and the M4/75mm gets 97 rounds PLUS the 60 rockets.  The T34/76 does carry 100 rounds of ammo, but with a reload rate of 9 seconds it delivers at a very slow rate.  

So, if the goal is to pound dirt and destroy OBJ then the king is the M4/75mm with the Calliope attachment.  Anyone done the math yet?  

Even in the read deal there were trade offs, nothing was the best at everything.  Just because a tank can sit back and destroy enemy vehicles at 2000 yards with ease does not mean it can do the same against buildings and other OBJ. There are lots of factors to think about.  If there is high probability there are enemy tanks waiting for me and my job is to help bring down a town I wont be taking an M4/75.  I'll probably take a Panzer IV H or Panther. the HE is still good enough for town work and the AP is very good or better.

In short, if you want to move dirt or hammer OBJ, leave the M4/76, M18, and Firefly (and M8) in the hanger.  They are better used against gv's (after all, the Firefly and M18 are designated tank destroyers ). If you're primary mission is to engage enemy armor leave the M4/75 Calliope in the hanger, but grab that first of you want to pound dirt or hammer OBJ.  The King Tiger and Tiger are truly kings of the battlefield, but they need support for their flanks or else they will get eaten alive by the fast moving M18's.  FWIW, the Firefly is second only to the King Tiger in actual AP performance.  Then, the Panther is 3rd, then the Tiger, and then the Panzer IV H.  The T34/85mm is actually behind the Panzer IV H in AP ability though the T34/85 does have an advantage under 1200 yards if it uses the HVAP.

EDIT: I have some spread sheets show all the hard data for the tanks (all the info shown above and even stuff like turret traverse rates, turn radius, optics info, etc).  They have been given to the AH Trainers, whomever they are, to post on their website. I've also given them an updated "projectile analysis" spread sheet.  To date, they have not been posted.  What is available is from prior to 2008, is missing lots of weapons, and some of it is wrong.  But alas.....

If people PM me their email I will do my best to send them a few pdf files.

      

[Butcher]

It really depends what you are wanting to do with a GV -

M4a3(75) I use to hit towns, always have the rockets, only slight problem with this is a single aircraft can knock the rockets off the tank, however this tank can take down town pretty much on its own. I usually add a handful of AP rounds for Tanks in town or Wirbs that tend to go to the towns. Its AP really sucks (short barrel 75) which pretty much makes it decent if you are under 400 yards from the nearby tank.

T34/85 - this is my main tank, I generally use it for offense and defense, its 85mm gun packs a punch, its HVAP can knock out any tank in the game under 1000 yards. I am not much of a fan of the M4a3(76), I do use it from time to time, its optics allow it to shoot at a further distance and score hits, however its large silhouette tends to make it an easier target to hit, while both tanks have decent armor, the T34 has better armor in the turret.

The M18 I use depending on what goes on, its an extremely fast tank destroyer - meaning it has absolutely no ARMOR. I generally will use it to hit and run, its 76mm is same as the M4's, I generally try to flank every tank I see to insure I kill the tank.

Panzer IV F - I use this tank to build perks, at 40ENY and a crappy gun, you basically need to shoot everything from the side to insure a kill. a Panzer H is the all round most medium tank in the game, its decent in everything but 25 ENY. One panzer kill is 1 perk, while a Panzer IVF gets almost 2 perks.

Panther - this is my goto tank, if I am on offense or defense and want something to punch through most tanks in the game, the Panther does it - once you learn to hit tanks at 2500+ yards the Panther can do some wonders, its armor is pretty awesome in the front as well, only problem is its a medium tank. Tigers and the Jagdpanzer/panthers can cause a serious problem to it.

I prefer the Panther because its fast, heavy armored, and well gunned. A Tiger is decent at 25mph, with an 8.8cm, problem is its turret rotates far to slow for me, I would only use a tiger if I was at 2500+ yards away. King Tiger is basically a perk giant, best gun in the game best armor, strictly use it for defense unless I feel risky enough to take one out.

Firefly - awesome gun, horrible tank. at 20mph with medicore armor, it basically will win a duel with a tiger long as it don't get hit. A Panzer 4 can easily destroy a firefly, however for 2-3 perks, its worth it if you need to kill a Panther or Tiger.

90% of the time if I have the perks, I want a Panther above the rest, the only problem is perks get eaten up quick in a Panther over time. However perks are easy to come by if you know how to make em. Don't take a Wirb, train with an Osti, Wirb is very low ENY where an Osti is 25 or so? it builds perks quick.
M-16 is even better, drive it to the end of an enemy runway and have some fun.

[SmokinLoon]

It really depends what you are wanting to do with a GV -

M4a3(75) I use to hit towns, always have the rockets, only slight problem with this is a single aircraft can knock the rockets off the tank, however this tank can take down town pretty much on its own. I usually add a handful of AP rounds for Tanks in town or Wirbs that tend to go to the towns. Its AP really sucks (short barrel 75) which pretty much makes it decent if you are under 400 yards from the nearby tank.

T34/85 - this is my main tank, I generally use it for offense and defense, its 85mm gun packs a punch, its HVAP can knock out any tank in the game under 1000 yards. I am not much of a fan of the M4a3(76), I do use it from time to time, its optics allow it to shoot at a further distance and score hits, however its large silhouette tends to make it an easier target to hit, while both tanks have decent armor, the T34 has better armor in the turret.

The M18 I use depending on what goes on, its an extremely fast tank destroyer - meaning it has absolutely no ARMOR. I generally will use it to hit and run, its 76mm is same as the M4's, I generally try to flank every tank I see to insure I kill the tank.

Panzer IV F - I use this tank to build perks, at 40ENY and a crappy gun, you basically need to shoot everything from the side to insure a kill. a Panzer H is the all round most medium tank in the game, its decent in everything but 25 ENY. One panzer kill is 1 perk, while a Panzer IVF gets almost 2 perks.

Panther - this is my goto tank, if I am on offense or defense and want something to punch through most tanks in the game, the Panther does it - once you learn to hit tanks at 2500+ yards the Panther can do some wonders, its armor is pretty awesome in the front as well, only problem is its a medium tank. Tigers and the Jagdpanzer/panthers can cause a serious problem to it.

I prefer the Panther because its fast, heavy armored, and well gunned. A Tiger is decent at 25mph, with an 8.8cm, problem is its turret rotates far to slow for me, I would only use a tiger if I was at 2500+ yards away. King Tiger is basically a perk giant, best gun in the game best armor, strictly use it for defense unless I feel risky enough to take one out.

Firefly - awesome gun, horrible tank. at 20mph with medicore armor, it basically will win a duel with a tiger long as it don't get hit. A Panzer 4 can easily destroy a firefly, however for 2-3 perks, its worth it if you need to kill a Panther or Tiger.

90% of the time if I have the perks, I want a Panther above the rest, the only problem is perks get eaten up quick in a Panther over time. However perks are easy to come by if you know how to make em. Don't take a Wirb, train with an Osti, Wirb is very low ENY where an Osti is 25 or so? it builds perks quick.
M-16 is even better, drive it to the end of an enemy runway and have some fun.

Good assessment for the most part.

You'd better double check the "sucky gun" vs "best all around medium tank in the game" statement on the Panzer IV F/2 gun vs the Panver IV H gun, the difference is hardly worth mentioning.  At 2000 yards the difference in AP ability is 8mm, at 1000 yards the difference in AP ability is 9mm. The barrel length is all that separates those two tanks, save for the MG on top.  The F/1 variant has a slightly faster reload rate due to the smaller case, but the worst AP of any round in AH.  To be honest, I'm surprised HTC put the ENY at 40 instead of 30 or 35 considering the H variant is ENY 25.  

Also, best time I ever had in a King Tiger was when I was attacking.  I was lucky enough to have squad mates to my either flank to give me some protection from the scooters (faster moving M18s, M8's, etc). I ended up with almost 25 hard earned kills (as in NOT spawn campin') and most of them were at the 2000 yard mark.  My squad mates were in Panthers and Panzer IV's. I was able to work to within 2500 yards or so of the enemy VH on an airfield that was being steadily attacked in the air (at least 20 planes attacking/defending at all times), and being slightly elevated I was able to sit there and wait for the attackers to come out, park, and then let loose.  I watched the film and I took no fewer than 80 hits from enemy tanks and 88mm AA guns.  Interestingly enough, I saw no enemy King Tigers or Jagdpanthers.  What got me was a T34/76 that was able to scurry up between the hedgerows and get a shot a °90 shot on my flank from 600 yards out.  Shortly after the defenders upped 5-6 IL-2's and finished off the rest of my squad mates.  So yeah, the King Tiger is a concrete magnet for most people (a.k.a "defense only"), but when the conditions are right don't hesitate to use it on the offensive.  Alone you're a sitting duck for the bomb****s and scooters.  The Tiger can do the same thing under most situation and needs to only fear King Tigers, Tigers, Jagdpanthers, Firefly's, and sometimes Panthers from the front.

As I remind people constantly in AH: in gv duels it is all about the range and the angle of impact.          

          

[Butcher]

remind people constantly in AH: in gv duels it is all about the range and the angle of impact.          
   

Standard range in AH is about 1000 yards. Because of the terrain, and unless you drive 30 minutes to the nearest ridgeline, its impossible to have a shot over 1500 anymore. Only a few maps it can be done sadly, but for good reason - otherwise GV's would be sitting ducks always all the time.
(When I say 1000 yards, I mean give or take a few yards, a straight shot beyond 1200 would be tough considering how many trees, GV movement, hills are blocking its way).

There was a map I forget, I did manage over 100 kills in a panther simply by sitting on a ridge at 2700 yards out on an angle which a Panther/Tiger couldn't even penetrate me, I really wish we could have some of these long range shots, but its rare in Aces, Trinity it could be done in a few places, most of the time none.
What sucks is we could have so many Tank destroyers that need this kind of range to be successful - nashorn for example.

[WWhiskey]

I forgot that part,, my standard range to engage is 12 to 1600,,  for most tank fights

[Chalenge]

All you need to know is that the M4A3-75 can kill an entire vehicle field or small airfield in less than 10 minutes, alone. It takes practice to use the calliope rockets well enough to do this, but it is possible. With a single M3 load of supplies you can easily take the entire field down.

[Cremator]

This is the stuff I wanted to read. Thanks to all