Bomber Combat simulation in Aces High

[Chilli]

I think the problem is more related to the amount of time and patience involved with buff hunting.   Those high altitude buffs are going to take a lot more patience and are exponentially harder to target with the proper approach.  I much rather fight single fighters or a group of fighters than to climb 10k feet above my current altitude and chase a formation of bombers for 3 sectors to possibly make a wrong decision and suddenly find my monitor flashing the tower screen in my face.

I do get where Traveler is coming from.  If you are not in the right bird, have the right convergence, and take the right approach, you are going to go "right down" in flames or pieces.  I am not going to say that the bombers are over modeled, just that there are few pilots that are consistent at doing all of the above that it takes to successfully take out a half way decent bomber pilot with proper altitude and speed.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Part of the issue is the totally different operational restrictions of Aces High.

One thing that's always bothered me about sims is that most don't model any kind of engine wear, you can run any engine in Aces High at full power (not WEP) forever with no ill effects and so....everyone does.  Why wouldn't you?  Bombers in AH streak along at max speed all the time, with no regard to fuel or engine damage and, therefore, are much harder to intercept and get into a decent firing position rather than chase the damn things down and come in dead six cos that's the only angle available.

This is sort of a model fidelity issue, sort of not... The wear was an issue because of cost ( the logistical train and everything that goes with it) and the diminishing return of flying faster in return for having less bombers operational at any time. Tough dilemma for The Creator, because, IRL, they are that capable even as, IRL, those capabilities weren't used most of the time.

[999000]

This discussion is what I call  motivating..............<S>

[caldera]

Just this morning I had a Me 163B attacking my Lancs at 22K. He was flying the fastest, best climbing fighter of them all, allowing him to chose freely ANY angle, any approach to attack my slow bombers at will.
He chose to ride down the barrels of my tail guns from a perfect 6 Oclock.

That's what's getting you killed when attacking buffs, no matter what plane you are in. It's all about decisions. 

That always struck me as funny on HQ raids, where a bunch of 163s were fighting each other for kills, while flying in on direct 6 approaches. 
Coincidentally, trying to save gas in the 163 helped me learn proper attack methods that you can use for every plane.

I think the problem is more related to the amount of time and patience involved with buff hunting.   Those high altitude buffs are going to take a lot more patience and are exponentially harder to target with the proper approach.  I much rather fight single fighters or a group of fighters than to climb 10k feet above my current altitude and chase a formation of bombers for 3 sectors to possibly make a wrong decision and suddenly find my monitor flashing the tower screen in my face.

I do get where Traveler is coming from.  If you are not in the right bird, have the right convergence, and take the right approach, you are going to go "right down" in flames or pieces.  I am not going to say that the bombers are over modeled, just that there are few pilots that are consistent at doing all of the above that it takes to successfully take out a half way decent bomber pilot with proper altitude and speed.

If you mean "proper altitude and speed" is flying at combat ceiling, then that does limit your choice of fighters to attack with.  Anything under 25k though, can be killed by pretty much any fighter. 

This is a P-40B doing pretty well for itself:

[Rich46yo]

Actually when I see a fighter pilot break off rather then do something stupid against my bombers I respect him.

In real life I have read from many sources, even Luftwaffe aces, that flying into a Bomber box was terrifying. The noobs would sometimes even forget to shoot.

[GScholz]

Fuel was the limiting factor in RL. You can't run a B-17 from England to Berlin and back on MIL power. Nor would you be able to hold together any kind of formation. I have no problem with bombers flying all out in the MA. Lone bombers or small groups would certainly do so in RL if they were in trouble and had the fuel range.

[PJ_Godzilla]

If that's the case, then the in-flight spawns should just have a fuel deduction on arrival based on the duration required at cruise to reach the box. I have little doubt that, once in proximity, they'd very much like to increase throttle.

Of course, this would also mean that the return flight fuel would need to be deducted as well once they exit... Or, perhaps an a priori reduction from their supply. This would leave them in an appropriate place, decision-wise: go all out and risk exit or fly cool and run a greater risk of interception.

And, of course, none of this means anything for the main arena... But for scenario, realism is worthwhile.

[Brooke]

Should be that if both sides loses too many aircraft no one wins. It becomes a draw.

Events would all just end up being draws.

[GhostCDB]

 


I find killing bombers farely easy unless 999000 or SHawk is in the bomber.

If you come at certain angles the only gun that is able to get on you are the side guns (right gun/left gun).

Now if it is a B17 or B24, that is a different story; even then though, bombers aren't going to be a challenge to kill. Just be patient and don't get greedy or fixated.

Also remember. . .it is a game. Not everything in this game is realistic.

If that was the case I would argue that we are able to talk to other countries through 200 chat and we are able to fly any plane we want no matter what chess piece we are on.

[Chalenge]

Traveller, you are doing it wrong. Back when I flew AH all the time I shot down more than 100 bombers in a single month without the loss of a single life. In fact, I don't recall being even hit once. I started to make a video that included all of the kills and reduce it to a film that resembled a gun camera film, but I got tired of working on it. It is rather repetitive, and even the gun passes that got kills the actual downing of the plane is sometimes off camera because of delay. Still, in contrast with what you have experienced there is one squadron of B17s that I run into that failed to get to our strats and had to hit an airfield instead, because of the loses they suffered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTAD-_2I0bg

[kvuo75]

I do get where Traveler is coming from.  If you are not in the right bird, have the right convergence, and take the right approach, you are going to go "right down" in flames or pieces.  I am not going to say that the bombers are over modeled, just that there are few pilots that are consistent at doing all of the above that it takes to successfully take out a half way decent bomber pilot with proper altitude and speed.

I'm pretty sure the stats confirm that buffs are sitting ducks more than they are racking up kills against fighters.

[Karnak]

Traveler,

Why role or use do you think bombers would have in AH if they were made much easier to kill?

[RotBaron]

All of you that keep posting "he's doing it wrong"  do you not realize he's not doing it at all?

[RotBaron]

btw if it weren't for ded 6 attackers, many of the buff pilots wouldn't get any kills 

shhhhhh  ?

[Xavier]

By the way, what's everybody's ride of choice when buffs are in the menu? Any personal preferences?