Ta 152 and the tail stall

[LCADolby]

This has to be a bug.

The aircraft is nose heavy, why is the 152 so unrecoverable?

[FLS]

This has to be a bug.

The aircraft is nose heavy, why is the 152 so unrecoverable?

I would guess the center of pressure is far enough ahead of the CG in that attitude.

Why do you say it's nose heavy?

[skorpx1]

I would guess the center of pressure is far enough ahead of the CG in that attitude.

Why do you say it's nose heavy?

Well I guess an engine, guns and a ton of other crap in the front half of the plane might be an explanation.

From what I know the centerline on the 152 is right behind the pilot's head in the cockpit.

[FLS]

Well I guess an engine, guns and a ton of other crap in the front half of the plane might be an explanation.

How is that different from our other fighters?

The lift center of pressure on the wing is likely in a different location when the airflow over the wing is reversed. If the center of gravity is too far from the center of lift it will be difficult to rotate around the CG.

The reason I question "nose heavy" is because nose heavy and tail heavy typically refer to trim conditions. If you trim from level flight at 200 MPH you will be nose heavy at 100 MPH and tail heavy at 300 mph.

[xPoisonx]

Just read old threads on the tailstall, most of it is related to combat trim screwing you over at low speeds, once you fly it enough, it is a nonfactor.

As for getting out of it, cut your engine and drop your flaps and wait, use alieron control to keep you upright.

[FLS]

Just read old threads on the tailstall, most of it is related to combat trim screwing you over at low speeds, once you fly it enough, it is a nonfactor.

As for getting out of it, cut your engine and drop your flaps and wait, use alieron control to keep you upright.

That's not correct. What the OP describes is unrelated to combat trim. You can recover it if you have enough altitude but you need your engine on.

[xPoisonx]

That's not correct. What the OP describes is unrelated to combat trim. You can recover it if you have enough altitude but you need your engine on.

He asked why it was so unrecoverable, I said because combat trim puts full up elevator otherwise it would be easier, as for having your engine on, in my experience its much easier with it idle or off.

[FLS]

He asked why it was so unrecoverable, I said because combat trim puts full up elevator otherwise it would be easier, as for having your engine on, in my experience its much easier with it idle or off.

Why do you suppose it happens in the Ta-152 without combat trim?

[xPoisonx]

Why do you suppose it happens in the Ta-152 without combat trim?

Thats why I said most of the time it is due to combat trim at low speeds. Of course you will still stall if you put it in the right condition.

[FLS]

If you trim the elevator up as far as you can, the stick will still move it all the way down. If you look at the elevator when sitting on the runway you can prove this to yourself. You will also see that you can only get the elevator full up with the stick.

Trim is only a factor when the stick is centered. Entering a stall because your elevator is trimmed up is not why the Ta-152 is difficult to recover when it's falling tail first.

Why do you think it isn't the different location of the lift center of pressure when the airflow is reversed over the wing? What prevents it from rotating on the center of gravity when it's falling backwards and you have full elevator control regardless of combat trim?

[xPoisonx]

If you trim the elevator up as far as you can, the stick will still move it all the way down. If you look at the elevator when sitting on the runway you can prove this to yourself. You will also see that you can only get the elevator full up with the stick.

Trim is only a factor when the stick is centered. Entering a stall because your elevator is trimmed up is not why the Ta-152 is difficult to recover when it's falling tail first.

Why do you think it isn't the different location of the lift center of pressure when the airflow is reversed over the wing? What prevents it from rotating on the center of gravity when it's falling backwards and you have full elevator control regardless of combat trim?

I have not the time nor the desire to argue this back and forth with you, I can only say from experience it helps to have it off.