Author Topic: F4U Wing  (Read 5127 times)

Offline GScholz

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2014, 09:29:49 PM »
I guess this is the right thread for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4aPk4fledU
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline GScholz

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2014, 09:42:54 PM »
I must agree with General Rall... With all the manual work needed to just operate the aircraft I'm amazed the US pilots found the time to fight!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline GScholz

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2014, 03:41:22 PM »
Were all the big radial US rides that complicated to operate?

By comparison the 109G staring procedure is mostly checking that everything works before pulling the starter clutch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sz5t-m9IOE
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Puma44

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2014, 04:22:39 PM »
Were all the big radial US rides that complicated to operate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sz5t-m9IOE

No

I must agree with General Rall... With all the manual work needed to just operate the aircraft I'm amazed the US pilots found the time to fight!

Who lost the war?



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline GScholz

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2014, 04:35:43 PM »
No

So it was just the F4U? I find that hard to believe.


Who lost the war?

You don't even know that:aok
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Puma44

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2014, 05:01:36 PM »

You don't even know that:aok

You were busy looking in the wrong direction and missed the point.



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline GScholz

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2014, 05:13:33 PM »
You were busy looking in the wrong direction and missed the point.

No I don't think so... Your point was trying to deflect the issue by inserting a nationalistic bull**** red herring diversionary tactic that has nothing to do with aircraft performance or cockpit workload.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Puma44

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2014, 05:40:37 PM »
I'm amazed the US pilots found the time to fight!
You "inserted the nationalistic BS" trying to make a limp comparison based on no personal experience and still miss the point. 



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Offline bustr

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2014, 06:32:42 PM »
Great POST. And when we have one for German aircraft I'm sure GScholz will be an informative source as always.

So what F4u "combat" cockpit procedures did the pilots have to go through pre\during engagement? Didn't F4u engage the Luft a few times? How did that turn out for the overly cockpit complexity taxed F4u pilots?

My father flew cargo in Beech 18. I rode right seat a few times. He had a check list memorized along with sub actions if anything didn't respond correctly from the two radials or any system in the plane. Walk around check, Pre flight cockpit, pre takoff taxi and hold, takeoff, climb out, in destination flight, landing, taxi to the ramp, and shutdown. You could almost say "Rap Music" got it's start with memorized pilot check lists. Especially the warmup then cooling management for radials.

You should have heard him when he was working on his jet ticket. At which time he had is multi engine ticket along with multi engine commercial instructor ticket.

So how did all of the real world pilots in this post ever get their rides off the ground with all of the cockpit management procedures they were saddled with? Becoming a pilot is a self eliminating process. If you cannot excel at the complex multitasking of cockpit management, you don't get your ticket to fly.

So who won WW2............... 
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline GScholz

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2014, 06:42:56 PM »
You "inserted the nationalistic BS" trying to make a limp comparison based on no personal experience and still miss the point.  

Actually I was paraphrasing a German ace who flew most of the captured allied rides in addition to the German aircraft. I now see I wrongly attributed the quote to Rall, when it was in fact Stigler:

"I didn't like the Thunderbolt. It was too big. The cockpit was immense and unfamiliar. After so many hours in the snug confines of the [Me-109], everything felt out of reach and too far away from the pilot. Although the P-51 was a fine airplane to fly…it too was disconcerting. With all those levers, controls and switches in the cockpit, I'm surprised [American] pilots could find the time to fight."

I don't have real life experience in any WWII aircraft, but I read about those who do.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline GScholz

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2014, 06:49:20 PM »
Great POST. And when we have one for German aircraft I'm sure GScholz will be an informative source as always.

So what F4u "combat" cockpit procedures did the pilots have to go through pre\during engagement? Didn't F4u engage the Luft a few times? How did that turn out for the overly cockpit complexity taxed F4u pilots?

My father flew cargo in Beech 18. I rode right seat a few times. He had a check list memorized along with sub actions if anything didn't respond correctly from the two radials or any system in the plane... (snip)

That's interesting, since the Germans didn't use checklists at all. They believed in automation.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline GScholz

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2014, 06:59:32 PM »
So who won WW2............... 

The P-51 according to American television...
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline GScholz

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2014, 07:41:20 PM »
I see now it was a mistake of me to mention the 109 or anything non-American in this context, you guys only get your stars and stripes panties in a twist and come out with purses swinging. Even if it isn't as automated as the German rides the P-51 will do nicely for a comparison. In the P-51 the pilot does not need to manually adjust the cooling flaps. In the P-51 the pilot does not need to manually operate the blower. In the P-51 the pilot does not need to manually adjust the inter-cooler. The F4U's engine cannot have been designed for use in fighters!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Puma44

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2014, 08:14:08 PM »
No need to get in such a defensive crouch.  No one is attacking you.  Just asking questions and you are getting wound up and slinging the thinly vailed "nationalistic" insults. 



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Offline GScholz

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Re: F4U Wing
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2014, 08:24:45 PM »
Perhaps you're seeing insults where there are none.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."