Author Topic: Replacement for the Brew  (Read 8420 times)

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #255 on: June 27, 2014, 06:35:56 PM »
I'm expecting rather poor roll response due to sheer size and related inertial problems, that top speed is only 320mph from it's 2800hp also indicates a rather high drag coefficient, meaning it will zoom poorly, accelerate poorly, lose speed perhaps even faster than the brew, and add in induced drag from the turn, it will bleed E like a dump truck. Also of note, it's out climbed by the G4M.

Assuming combat weight of 20,000 lbs, wing loading is 39.76lbs/sqft, compared to the Me 410's atrocious 60.82 at max takeoff weight, and the Ki-43's excellent 27.99 at max takeoff weight. At typical weights, the Ki-43 has a wing loading of around 23lbs/sqft. In other words, the Beaufighter is right about in the middle of the spectrum. For comparison, a K4 with drop tank only has a wing loading of around 46.7lbs/sqft.


Don't get me wrong, it might be a moderately successful BnZer with that gun package (for a pass or two any way, with only 60rpg), but it's no hidden gem.

Your assumed weight is 4500 lbs over the empty weight. Most of that is fuel. Empty, the wing loading drops all the way to 30. Nobody will expect that on a twin. I agree on the drag, btw, but I'd be willing to bet that this thing's corner velocity is fairly low. What I said was that, low and slow, this thing will be a bear. I don't think it'll make much of a boom and zoom a/c. The speed is too low  - but at a quarter fuel or less and at low velocity, this thing will be quite dangerous, given its snapshot and point ability. In that sense, it is like a twin Brew, not a danger unless you're also low and slow.

Otherwise, I stand by my original comment that the Beau will only be a danger in a similar way that the Brew is. Remember, the brew doesn't have one of the better k/d in the game. I would predict the Beau will be a similar threat and have somewhat attenuated threat potential as a pure fighter. Otoh, consider that a Beau can come in heavy, tool shed everyone, and then fight on the way out in a manner that many attack aircraft cannot.

As for roll, I'd need to see the inertia numbers but the engines are spaced quite closely to the roll center . The ailerons, however, stop well short of being "full span". This just in: the roll rate is indeed low-70deg/s.

Mind, I never said "uber" . I just said it will fill the bill.

Guess we need a few copies rolled out to see whether it will be a legit mudder or just cannon fodder for the faster birds. I note there is a war thunder forum topic on the Beau scourge, but this is, of course, highly dependent on the wt model.

In any case, I don't think I disagree with much of what you said. It Will be shot down in large number ( name the ah aircraft that isn't). However, I do disagree with your assertion that it might be a good bnz or that it won't be an ankle biter. It'll be an ankle biter that takes the whole damn leg, given the right e state of the quarry.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline TheCrazyOrange

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #256 on: June 27, 2014, 07:11:02 PM »
IIRC, empty typically means no guns, ammo, oil, radiator fluid, fuel, or pilot.

In either case if we use empty weight, the Spit V has wing loading of a mere 20lbs/sqft, and the Ki-43 has a wing loading of 18. A G-6 has a wing loading of 34lbs/sqft.

In any case, the beau's wing loading isn't especially low.

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #257 on: June 27, 2014, 09:28:17 PM »
Mark V is 21 empty. You won't see MkV's in MA - much less any spits at 20.

As for 30 not being low, really? You mean the G-6 pilot who can't outturn a twin packing 4x Hispanos isn't going to crap his pants? This is all relative. You bounce a twin in the expectation of being able to dominate it . 5 pounds per hp? 30-34 psf? Most late war singles will match or overmatch on the power to weight and have higher wingloadings. Meanwhile, The Brewie range itself, 239-F2a3 fully loaded goes from 25 to 34. I'm not arguing that this thing is a Ki-43. However, it will likely have a better turn rate than most single seaters encountered in the MA: Pony, LA-7, all the 190s, late war 109s, Yak-9, etc.  THe Spit XVI will still be able to outturn (at all but fully laden conditions) and outrun it. Thus, the Beau, to most guys running around in Ponys and Wulfs, will be yet another one of those low-umbrella specialists that its best to run through, if you visit at all.

I just sat through a thread where people were complaining about the A-20 for its combination of maneuverability and ability to soak up damage. The A-20s turn performance was questioned in that very thread. The A-20 has low structural limits and very similar empty and loaded weights and roughly 10% less surface area and less firepower and about 200 more hp - and people complain.

Now I've sat through this thread about a very inferior ankle-biter also about which people are complaining. It has better turn perf than the Beau but also a lot less  firepower and about the same speed.
Guarantee: If we get the Beau, there'll be a thread complaining about it somehow being overmodelled - and it WON'T be because people are getting BnZ'ed by it. 
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline TheCrazyOrange

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #258 on: June 27, 2014, 10:00:27 PM »
I question that. It simply lacks the power to sustain a turn for long. Just a very rough estimate, but I'd say 1 turn may very well bleed it of 100 mph. A K4 could make 1 turn, and motor away.

It's likely going to be a threat only to planes like the C.200's, the Ki-61, and F6F. Maybe low F4U's.

where are numbers for the Mk V? I'd like to look into it a bit more.


Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #259 on: June 28, 2014, 08:53:03 AM »
I question that. It simply lacks the power to sustain a turn for long. Just a very rough estimate, but I'd say 1 turn may very well bleed it of 100 mph. A K4 could make 1 turn, and motor away.

It's likely going to be a threat only to planes like the C.200's, the Ki-61, and F6F. Maybe low F4U's.

where are numbers for the Mk V? I'd like to look into it a bit more.



I was referring to the Mark V Spit - the point being, subsequent Spits use the same wing and are heavier.

As for the sustained turn, again, its going to be very dependent on the loading. Light, the induced drag at higher bank angles will be significantly lower. 1600hp for 12500 pounds is an unimpressive power loading but 1600hp for 8000 pounds is not.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.