Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?

[FLOOB]

(Image removed from quote.)

 

The c47 Curdes shot down was coincidendally carrying his girlfriend. The important thing is that neither he nor the survivors lost their sense of humor about it. Unlike some.

[Charge]

I was also a bit confused by that scene and the 6oc profile looks a lot like Spitty but when the plane pitches downwards it looks like a 109. I think that in Griffon engined Spitty the rads were extending more outwards from the wing rather than being broad and I'd say that the plane in video has broad radiators.

I'd say it is a 109 with rad flaps wide open.

-C+

[Scherf]

The c47 Curdes shot down was coincidendally carrying his girlfriend. The important thing is that neither he nor the survivors lost their sense of humor about it. Unlike some.

Check out the name of his crew chief.

[Rich46yo]

Some of those hit sprites on trains and ground targets look like heavy cannon, not 0.50.

[GScholz]

It's an RAF Spit. Early in the clip you can even see the large roundels on the top of the wings. No German crosses. When it noses down you can also see the trailing edge of the wings are curved, not straight. It's a Spitfire.

[Scherf]

Yeah, I thought I saw the roundels too. Thing is, for the life of me I can't find any Spit loss, RAF or USAAF, which would fit (there's a website which has transcribed all the Air Britain stuff for Spits. I suppose there might have been finger trouble somewhere along the way, however both AB and the site seem spot-on for Mossies).

As the late and un-lamented J.A.W. pointed out, there's US guncam film of a Mossie being shot down, was credited as a 410, have chapter and verse on that one.

Dunno, maybe film from a different date? Would seem strange if so. The date is prior to the breakout in Normandy, so 2nd TAF Spitties wouldn't be near Bremen, and the long-range boys were also over France on that date. Emailed a US researcher whether he had any hints, he told me no issues for the USAAF recce Spits that day.

Hmmm.

[GScholz]

Maybe it wasn't a total loss. If it's near friendly territory it could have made it down safely. Damage/repair records? Were blue-on-blue incidents recorded or suppressed for morale reasons?

[Brooke]

Before people get more worked up by the allied flags on the two planes:

Regarding Gerald Johnson, "Earlier in the war, Johnson mistakenly shot down a Wirraway he though was a Zero. Apparently he was scrambled from Oz to intercept some Zeros and was told no Aussie aircraft were in the area. Anyway, the pilot ditched his Wirraway and only suffered some scratches. The kill marking was only on Gerry's plane for a couple months in 1945."  From
http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=24245
also see
http://veterantributes.org/TributeDetail.php?recordID=569

Regarding Louis Curdes:  "Curdes turned out to sea and saw a familiar aircraft lumbering toward him.

It was an American C-47 transport, heading for a landing at the enemy airfield he'd just shot up. Later he would learn that it was lost, its radio was out and it was nearly out of fuel. Its pilot believed the strip he'd spotted lay in American-held territory.    

Curdes flew in front of the C-47 twice to try to make it turn away, but its pilot

refused. He knew of only one other way to stop the disaster-bound craft. He dropped behind the C-47, which now was curving toward the island on its final approach. He cut loose with his six .50-caliber machine guns and destroyed one of its two engines.

Then he dropped behind it again, crossed to the other side and destroyed its other engine. The transport crashed into the sea. But Curdes' shooting had been so precise that he hadn't struck the plane's fuselage or harmed the dozen Americans, including two nurses, inside.    

Curdes scrawled a note, flew above the rafts at an altitude of 50 feet, and dropped them the message: "For God's sake, keep away from shore. Japs there." The Americans were rescued by seaplanes the next morning. A few days later,

Curdes received his second Distinguished Flying Cross and became the only U.S. flier in the war to be decorated for shooting down another U.S. plane in combat."

from
http://www.news-sentinel.com/article/2014140609785

[Puma44]

Thanks for the facts, Brooke. 

[Scherf]

Maybe it wasn't a total loss. If it's near friendly territory it could have made it down safely. Damage/repair records? Were blue-on-blue incidents recorded or suppressed for morale reasons?

Wondered about that myself - don't see how it could have made it from near Bremen either to Normandy or across the North Sea after that much damage, something is issuing forth from that aircraft in large quantities.

I get the impression that the blue-on-blue stuff between RAF units was well known at the unit level, though of course dead men tell no tales. There's a number of late-war Mossie bomber losses which I believe were down to Mossie night fighters, no-one was there to confirm of course, especially in what became the Soviet zone of occupation.

As for RAF/USAAF stuff, only thing I've read at the unit level was one of the recce squadrons in the Med having regular meetings with the American fighter command in an effort to reduce the number of times its aircraft had to dodge P-51s (IIRC that squad didn't lose any to friendly fire, though 140 Squadron of 2nd TAF lost two aircraft to friendly fire, none to the Luftwaffe). Eventually, because of the FF stuff, as well as the Me 262 threat, they were given USAAF escorts, including by the Red Tails.

[GScholz]

It got hit in the left radiator and what looks like the right wing fuel tank. Didn't look like the right radiator was leaking. No fire. Could be a perfectly flyable aircraft if it got away from Mr. Magoo...

[Slate]

Pretty sick thing to do. "Yeah, I'll paint this little flag on my plane to celebrate the killing a friendly who probably didn't even fight back because he actually has eyes and used them rather than being a trigger happy stunninghunk!"

Should have been court-marshalled and shot.

  A little trigger happy yourself? Jump to conclusions and you might just fire on a friendly too.   
 

Before people get more worked up by the allied flags on the two planes:



Regarding Louis Curdes:  "Curdes turned out to sea and saw a familiar aircraft lumbering toward him.

It was an American C-47 transport, heading for a landing at the enemy airfield he'd just shot up. Later he would learn that it was lost, its radio was out and it was nearly out of fuel. Its pilot believed the strip he'd spotted lay in American-held territory.     

Curdes flew in front of the C-47 twice to try to make it turn away, but its pilot

refused. He knew of only one other way to stop the disaster-bound craft. He dropped behind the C-47, which now was curving toward the island on its final approach. He cut loose with his six .50-caliber machine guns and destroyed one of its two engines.

Then he dropped behind it again, crossed to the other side and destroyed its other engine. The transport crashed into the sea. But Curdes' shooting had been so precise that he hadn't struck the plane's fuselage or harmed the dozen Americans, including two nurses, inside.     

Curdes scrawled a note, flew above the rafts at an altitude of 50 feet, and dropped them the message: "For God's sake, keep away from shore. Japs there." The Americans were rescued by seaplanes the next morning. A few days later,

Curdes received his second Distinguished Flying Cross and became the only U.S. flier in the war to be decorated for shooting down another U.S. plane in combat."

from
http://www.news-sentinel.com/article/2014140609785

[GScholz]

I was more concerned about the little Australian flag...

[Scherf]

It got hit in the left radiator and what looks like the right wing fuel tank. Didn't look like the right radiator was leaking. No fire. Could be a perfectly flyable aircraft if it got away from Mr. Magoo...

I suppose so. The USAAF researcher guy told me there were four Spit XI sorties that day from the 7th PRG, all returned safely to Mount Farm. He also said he knew of a couple of incidents where a US recce Spit was bounced by friendlies but climbed away - if the encounter in the report started at 24k, the Spit would have been rather low, especially as the weather is reported as CAVU, ceiling and visibility unrestricted.

I may have a squizz into the 4, 16 and 400 ORBs for August, to see if 2 TAF was out that way after all...

[Ack-Ack]

I was more concerned about the little Australian flag...

It's wasn't official, and IIRC, the crew chief painted it on as a joke.

ack-ack