Author Topic: Mustang  (Read 5824 times)

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Mustang
« Reply #120 on: July 17, 2014, 02:39:50 PM »
It will be interesting when motion simulators eventually become mainstream in 5, 10, or 20 years.  Pretty much meaning my desk would be covered with puke.  :)


If you had actual feel you'd be able to coordinate without thinking about it quickly. Simulators are harder to fly well than airplanes, or so they say.

I've been told that minor amounts of slip and skid on the ball don't matter too much for combat flying on this forum, so it is probably not hurting your performance in the game.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11603
      • Trainer's Website
Re: Mustang - Films
« Reply #121 on: July 17, 2014, 04:19:26 PM »
Thank you! This answers a lot of mysteries for me!



That's also why ailerons are more effective in a stall when stalled with flaps out.

Actual best sustained turn speeds need to be flight tested but you generally don't need the actual best speed as long as you're close.

Thanks, FLS.  I didn't know this.  I'm just going by feel.

The biggest thing I notice about my flying is the lack of coordinated turns when slow.

Just push left foot when you roll left, right foot with right roll, center pedals as soon as you get the bank angle, you generally don't hold the pedal for the turn but you may need a little correction.  Make it a habit and don't worry about getting the ball exactly centered.

Keep in mind uncoordinated flight is harder to hit.   ;)

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14024
Re: Mustang - Films
« Reply #122 on: July 17, 2014, 04:37:46 PM »
That's also why ailerons are more effective in a stall when stalled with flaps out.

Actual best sustained turn speeds need to be flight tested but you generally don't need the actual best speed as long as you're close.

Just push left foot when you roll left, right foot with right roll, center pedals as soon as you get the bank angle, you generally don't hold the pedal for the turn but you may need a little correction.  Make it a habit and don't worry about getting the ball exactly centered.

Keep in mind uncoordinated flight is harder to hit.   ;)

In most conventional rotation piston airplanes you lead with left aileron in left turns and lead with right rudder in right turns.  That's my experience any way.   Obviously it is plane-dependent.....
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline katanaso

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2480
Re: Mustang - Films
« Reply #123 on: July 17, 2014, 04:47:13 PM »
Just push left foot when you roll left, right foot with right roll, center pedals as soon as you get the bank angle, you generally don't hold the pedal for the turn but you may need a little correction.  Make it a habit and don't worry about getting the ball exactly centered.

Keep in mind uncoordinated flight is harder to hit.   ;)

I tend to do this much better in the 38.  It doesn't look like as sloppy.  For me, the 51 is tough to get that coordinated flight when I start getting it slow and turn-y. :)

I need that little rudder needle like we had in AW, and then I could see how much input I'm giving it.  hehe
mir
80th FS "Headhunters"


The most terrifying words in the English language are: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: Mustang
« Reply #124 on: July 17, 2014, 05:11:37 PM »
Mir,

You are flying manual trim during ACM?
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline katanaso

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2480
Re: Mustang
« Reply #125 on: July 17, 2014, 05:57:42 PM »
Mir,

You are flying manual trim during ACM?

Yes, always.

In regards to the 51, if speed permits, I'll start the fight with Combat Trim, and then turn it off at 300ias or just under.

If I'm slower than 300ias when the fight starts, I'll manually trim the nose down a little until it feels right.

mir
80th FS "Headhunters"


The most terrifying words in the English language are: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: Mustang
« Reply #126 on: July 17, 2014, 06:05:06 PM »
I was experimenting offline with 1-3 notches of flaps out and nose down trim while BnZing, scissoring, and barrel roll attacking the drones. It gives you smooth nose control for snap shots during maneuvering especially while picking up speed nose down. You just have to remember upon pulling the flaps full up, your nose will be heavy until past 350.

Wonder what happened in the real world when you trimmed for combat and didn't have time to bother with trim again as you popped a notch of flaps for maneuvering?
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Mustang
« Reply #127 on: July 17, 2014, 07:41:11 PM »
I was experimenting offline with 1-3 notches of flaps out and nose down trim while BnZing, scissoring, and barrel roll attacking the drones. It gives you smooth nose control for snap shots during maneuvering especially while picking up speed nose down. You just have to remember upon pulling the flaps full up, your nose will be heavy until past 350.

Wonder what happened in the real world when you trimmed for combat and didn't have time to bother with trim again as you popped a notch of flaps for maneuvering?

Real P-51 pilots had three little knobs right under the hand near the throttle and flaps control. Also, being slightly out of trim isn't the headache in a real plane it is in a simulator controlled with a six inch plastic joystick. I believe Hitech has said something about including combat trim for that very reason.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14024
Re: Mustang
« Reply #128 on: July 17, 2014, 08:09:00 PM »

Wonder what happened in the real world when you trimmed for combat and didn't have time to bother with trim again as you popped a notch of flaps for maneuvering?


You muscled through it.  Adrenaline surely helped.
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
King of the Hill Champ, Tour 219
The Damned
King of the Hill Win Percentage - 100 (1 Win, 0 Losses)

Offline Muzzy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1402
Re: Mustang
« Reply #129 on: July 18, 2014, 11:57:48 AM »
The films have been incredibly instructive, Mir. Making better use of the flaps has given me more confidence in this plane. I'm not as worried about slowing down too much as I used to be, and I can hang in a turn fight a lot longer. I'm still trying to get a feel for it but it's coming along a lot better. I also find I can come around a lot faster even in high speed fights, and that appears to be surprising opponents. It's also much easier to stay on a con's six.

If you have any other films that might be instructive I'd appreciate it.

 :salute


CO 111 Sqdn Black Arrows

Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Mustang
« Reply #130 on: July 18, 2014, 12:38:06 PM »
I also find I can come around a lot faster even in high speed fights, and that appears to be surprising opponents.

Indeed. I shot a Zeke this morning from cold-side lag (In the belly, IOW) in the Mustang. I think he thought I'd simply fly right on by, but I put out the flaps and bent it around. Surprise can be a weapon that trumps all else...
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline katanaso

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2480
Re: Mustang
« Reply #131 on: July 21, 2014, 09:09:15 AM »
The films have been incredibly instructive, Mir. Making better use of the flaps has given me more confidence in this plane. I'm not as worried about slowing down too much as I used to be, and I can hang in a turn fight a lot longer. I'm still trying to get a feel for it but it's coming along a lot better. I also find I can come around a lot faster even in high speed fights, and that appears to be surprising opponents. It's also much easier to stay on a con's six.

If you have any other films that might be instructive I'd appreciate it.

 :salute

I'm very happy they're helpful.

I have some more that I'll upload during the week, including one from this past weekend that had a couple of fights in it.

:salute
mir
80th FS "Headhunters"


The most terrifying words in the English language are: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Offline Muzzy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1402
Re: Mustang
« Reply #132 on: July 22, 2014, 01:46:17 PM »
One other thing I've found...once you can fly the pony passably well, it's really easy to kill ponies, since a lot of pony drivers don't know what you know.


CO 111 Sqdn Black Arrows

Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"