Tell me about the HE111

[Karnak]

I think that Lusche is trying to make this point:

Spit I in LWA: Deathtrap.
Spit XVI in LWA: Top line fighter.
He111H-6 in LWA: Deathtrap.
He111H-16 in LWA: Deathtrap.


Is the H-16 less of a deathtrap than the H-6?  Yes, but not enough to be considered something other than a deathtrap.  the H-16 would likely beat the G4M1's K/D ratio, but not much else.  So whatever the changes to the Spit XVI compared to the Spit I, the effectiveness of those changes are much greater than any the He111 saw.

[Lusche]

Is the H-16 less of a deathtrap than the H-6?  Yes, but not enough to be considered something other than a deathtrap. 

In terms of K/D, I would expect it to end up in the Ju-88 area:



But it would not be able to cross the (imaginary, yet very distinct border line that's currently dividing the formation bomber set between the B-24J and the Lancaster

[GScholz]

So in your opinion it becomes "only" twice as good by that metric...

[Karnak]

So in your opinion it becomes "only" twice as good by that metric...

Twice as good is still very bad in the case of the He111.  You can't look at it in a vacuum.

I am not saying it shouldn't be done, just that doing so would not significantly increase its usage.

[GScholz]

It's not about usage. It's about giving the people who do fly it in the MA the best version that was available in numbers. About half of all He 111s produced during WWII were the later H variants H-11 to H-20 (with sub-types).

And if you look at Luche's list the current 111 is at the very bottom, only marginally better than an unarmed bomber in K/D. However if Luche's expectations hold true it becomes one of the best non-US bombers that isn't a Ki-67...

[Denniss]

Of the 1100 He 111 H-16 built, 900 were of the /R1 variant which was supposed to be fitted with the MG 131 turret.

[GScholz]

Interesting, thanks!

[caldera]

The only way an He-111 is going to shoot me down is if I collide with it. 
That's been the case with Lancasters for some time and eventually I will crash into a Heinkel too.

Looking forward to skies filled with the "leetest" He-111. 

[Karnak]

And if you look at Luche's list the current 111 is at the very bottom, only marginally better than an unarmed bomber in K/D. However if Luche's expectations hold true it becomes one of the best non-US bombers that isn't a Ki-67...

I wonder where the Tu-2 shows up on that list?

[GScholz]

I was also wondering that.

[Lusche]

I wonder where the Tu-2 shows up on that list?

oooops  oversight

Tu-2 had a A2A k/d of 0.25

However, the Tu-2 is also often found in a single plane, 'Jabo' role, unlike all other planes except for maybe the Arado. B-25C, Bostons and other medium bombers are much rarer flown in this way. I can't quantify that though, so it's a thing you just have to keep in mind.