Author Topic: Naval Warfare  (Read 1713 times)

Offline Volron

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2014, 01:05:24 AM »
Player Controlled Ships (BASIC).

For player controlled ships, dependent on how and/or what is implemented, I would say to start that the heaviest ship class to be player controlled will be the Light Cruiser.  Reason I pull for the Light Cruiser class is to counter, more effectively, the Cruiser we currently have within the TG's.  When Battleships are implemented, give the player the ability to control a Heavy Cruiser to counter.  The reason to not go any higher is simply due to the fact that the BB's are locked into the task group.  A player controlled ship is, of course, not.  We can move freely compared to the BB, which translates to more maneuverability, which equals better survival.


Expanding further on this subject:

Players could control the following types of ship classes:  Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer Escort, Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer, Light Cruiser.  With the implementation of Battleships to Task Groups; Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser.  I am uncertain about the Heavy Destroyer Class, if such a designation existed.  If so, we would have the ability to control a ship of this class.  If not, omit.

Each class of ship will have "gun packages" to choose from and will affect it's ENY/OBJ value (if possible) as well as incur a Perk Price if deemed necessary.  Things such as Sonar/Advanced Sonar, Radar Controlled Fire Control, Depth Charges and Radar(?) could/would incur a Perk Price, for example.  These gun packages will fall into year ranges (Rough Example: 39-M41/M41-M43/M43-L44/L44-45) and will affect what your ship's gun setup would be.  In other words, if you chose the 39-M41 gun package, your ship's guns will be majority setup for Anti-Ship combat.  A L44-45 will be setup with less Anti-Ship guns and more AAA.  This will apply to Hulls that were used through out the war, example being MANY of the Japanese Ships.

Player Controlled Ships could use spawns out to sea (PT Spawns, or spawns designated for ships), but would otherwise need to launch out of port off one of the docking piers.  Adding a Dry Dock to ports would allow players to knock it out and prevent ship spawn, but the hardness of such a target is in question.  Hanger Hardness at the very least, but possibly require 4-6k ords to knock out.  The down time of such a target will be of hanger down time, 15 minutes.  Knocking out ords at a port will affect the amount of ords a ship can launch from.  If all ords are down at a port, you will only have 2 torpedoes per tube for example.  Otherwise you take a full load.  The safest way to "land" your ship would be to return to a port and bring her within a certain range or within the docking piers.  However, like ground vehicles, if there are no enemies within 6k(?), you will get a "successful landing" and you are less than 3(?) knots.

Damage sustained to player ships will behave as they would with Task Group ships.  If the appropriate damage is sustained to your ship, you will list, go fore/aft heavy, slow, lose maneuverability, and possibly leave an oil slick.  You can also sustain and lose your Fire Control Tower if your ship class uses one (this would be implemented into TG ships as well).  Losing any turret is permanent, meaning if you want that turret back, you will have to up a new ships.  "Soft" guns, 40mm/37mm AAA and less, can be repaired though it will cost you 1 repair point.  When repaired, all soft guns will repair, not just partial (for game play reasons).  After all, it would be no fun if you couldn't at least defend yourself against enemy air.  Other damage sustained to a player can, in some cases, be repaired at sea.  However while you can do a stop-gap repair, your speed and/or turn radius will still be affected.  It isn't meant to fix your ship perfectly, though it doesn't mean you are out of the fight.  Player ships can have their rudder/engine/sonar/radar disabled and the player will not be able to implement repairs until you are 6k away from an enemy.  At which point, you would have to drop to less than 3 knots to repair.  This means you can slow to less than 3 knots, but still have visual on an enemy ship.  So long as he's 6+k away, you can initiate repairs.  Of course this is risky.  These stop-gap repairs can only be done an X amount of times (dependent on ship class) before supplies would have to be ran out to you, unless you have supplies on board (Explained Later).

A rough example of the amount of times you can do repairs at sea without resupply:
Corvette: 1
Frigate: 1
Destroyer Escort: 1-2
Destroyer: 2-3
Heavy Destroyer: 3
Light Cruiser: 3-4
Cruiser: 4-5
Heavy Cruiser: 6

A "ship stall limiter" could be implemented that would automatically counter-flood in case of listing.  You can turn this off, but would have to order your crew to counter flood (a button click).  With it on, your crew will automatically counter-flood with no input from you.  Turning it off will allow more control over how you want your ship to behave in the event of listing.  However if you have it off and don't pay attention, the possibility of capsizing in an otherwise survivable hit, exists.  The same for having it on.  While your ship will automatically counter flood, the result may cost you the speed/maneuverability to win or escape.  A double edged sword.



Controlling Your Guns.

You will, of course, have the ability to man your guns (or even call in a gunner).  When you click the button Man Guns, the clipboard will pop and show available guns.  Tabs at the top could be used to select between the following: Fire Control Tower; Main Guns; Secondary Guns; AAA; Torpedo Launcher(?).  If a gun has been knocked out, it will show red on the clipboard.  AAA will work as they do on bombers however, when not manned, AAA on your ship will be under AI control.  You can toggle an option for your AI to shoot at other ships or to ignore them (if possible).  If a player jumps into your AAA, the AI will "shut down" until the player leaves.  The AI used for our auto-guns will be sufficient, so there shouldn't be a need to rewrite AI.  The thing to note is that, even if your ship is capable of putting out puffy ack, the AI will not be able to use these.  This will be solely, a player control aspect of your ship.  No AI puffy of death, so rest easy AC.  If you are shot down by a player ship's puffy, rest assured it will have been by a human player in the guns.  There has to be some give somewhere, and AI for your AAA is something I feel is best in this situation.

EDIT: I forgot to mention another important factor, that also applies to TG Ships: Free Mode, Land Mode and Sea Mode.  This will be explain further in my next post.


Destroyer Escort/Destroyer Supplies.

There could be two type of supplies carried by the DE/DD's: Hull Supplies; which add 1 repair, or Ship Supplies; which rearm a quarter of your ords (shells, torpedoes, depth charges, etc.)  You may be able to push Ship Supplies to half, but I wouldn't fo further.  DE and DD's will be the only class that will have the ability to run supplies, but at the cost of your torpedo load.  One example would be to take on supplies to resupply a player, but at the cost of half of your torpedoes.  It is to my understanding that submarines, at times, would take on supplies from a DE/DD simply because it was too dangerous for a Supply Ship to be sent.  These supplies could be taken by any player ship, but both would have to slow to less than 3 knots in order to drop/take on supplies.  Hull Supplies will add 1 more repair to the target ship, including your own.  In other words, if you up a DE with supplies, you will have 3 (using high end) points of repair for your ship, though only half of the amount of torpedoes you could carry.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 01:32:38 AM by Volron »
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline Volron

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2014, 02:04:58 AM »
Free Mode, Land Mode, Sea Mode.

These options will be available to TG ships and Player Ships.  For Player Controlled ships, you can choose to bombard a target using land mode from the bridge of your ship.  An option, Bombardment, will be available from the bridge which you can click on to start using.  This will automatically put you into Land Mode and a clipboard with a map will pop up with the option (dependent on ship class) to use Main Guns, Secondary Guns and All Guns (If your ship lacks secondary guns, Main Guns and Secondary Guns will be grayed out and All Guns will be locked in).  Since your ship is limited in ammunition, it's not always feasible to use All Guns.  For example, if you are expecting ship-to-ship combat, just using your Secondary Guns could benefit you more.  However you will be able to toggle between the options while on the bridge at will.  Just pull up your clipboard and check the appropriate box as per your needs.  Example: Cruiser Class (our current class Brooklyn?  I honestly keep forgetting.)  I wish to bombard a town, and rather do it from the bridge so I can use both my 8" Main Guns as well as my 5" Secondary Guns.  I would click on the button Bombardment and my clipboard will pop up, setting my mode to Land Mode and give me the options to use either my Main Guns, Secondary Guns or All Guns (By Default All Guns will be checked).  From there I click on the map where the town is and proceed to hit the assigned fire all guns key (which mine is the default setting).  Now, if you have a gunner on your ship, he will only be able to control one turret if you are controlling all guns.  This means that he will not be able to use the Fire Control Tower(s) of either the 8" guns or 5" guns, and instead will be stuck with using a single turret.  To allow him to do the bombardment or to take control of the 5" Fire Control Tower, you will have to drop out of bombardment mode and resume from a Fire Control Tower, if you wish to use it's assigned guns, or from an individual turret.


Supply Ships.

If players are allowed to control supply ships, then the ability to fully reload a player ship will be feasible.  They might also have the ability to fully restore a player ship's repair points as well (which is dependent in Supply Ship Class and Target Player's Ship Class).  Supply ships can run with (dependent on class) 2-4 supplies and will fall under the same requirements to carry out the operation (both must be slowed to under 3 knots to drop/take supplies).  This is further detailed with the ability to adjust supply types (IE: Using the large range of 4:  Take 2 Hull and 2 Ship or, take 1 Hull and 3 ship).  Supply Ships can also take Field Supplies and be used to resupply any coastal fields (if they are close enough) and ports.  If implemented, they could be used to resupply fleets (IE: Bombardment Task Group Troop Transports).  Dependent on class, Supply Ships can sport light Anti-Ship guns and/or AAA guns, and they will have "gun packages" if applicable.  Supply Ships, while lightly armed and armored, could give a player the ability to drastically reduce the down time's at the base.  While this may sound "op", you have to consider the fact that this player had to sail all the way from his nearest friendly port to this base, and that he's doing it in a lightly armed and armored ship.  They are not known for their speed as well, so I think this is a reasonable trade off.  The reward for this action will also fit the effort.  That being said, having a time limit to which you can resupply the same base will need to be implemented so people don't "farm" perks.  Maybe limiting the ability to resupply the same field to once every 2-4 hours to prevent this is a starting point.  Adjust both perks and time as necessary.



AI Supply Ships/Convoys (BASIC).

If implemented, they should follow supply corridors.  Inside these corridors, the AI ship will "randomly" plot a course towards it's destination.  A corridor should be 25-50 miles wide, which means that if someone hunting supply ships/convoy's wants juicy perks, they will have to work for them a little bit.  No: Beaufighter, 25% fuel, X Bombs/Rockets, fly to this very spot here, ???, profit.  You'll have to look a bit.
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline bustr

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2014, 06:56:23 PM »
Complexity is it's own worst enemy while acting as a narcotic for the creators mind.

Your write up sounds great on paper with 24 sided dice.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Volron

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2014, 10:00:01 AM »
Complexity is it's own worst enemy while acting as a narcotic for the creators mind.

Your write up sounds great on paper with 24 sided dice.

Aside from your first post which briefly mentions the eye candy as a result of damage, this quoted post seems to be the only one that actually is a straight response to the idea I put forth.  Otherwise, your previous 2 posts really didn't amount to much more than rambling on about the past.  So, what is your exact problem with the idea here?  I want to hear what you have to say.  You may very well state something I completely missed, or have a better line to draw from one point to another.  Getting information from different perspectives helps out after all.  I only request few things in your response;  Don't "beat around the bush" like you normally do.  Get to the point.  Stay on point.


While I may only be 32, there was something I was told that may be of help to you: "Respect people regardless of age.  Otherwise, do not ask for respect when you give none."
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline lerxst

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2014, 04:03:33 PM »
+1 :aok

Offline caldera

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2014, 04:43:23 PM »
Complexity is it's own worst enemy while acting as a narcotic for the creators mind.

Shortest bustr post ever.  And most ironic.   :D
"Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the gate:
 To every man upon this earth, death cometh soon or late.
 And how can man die better, than facing fearful odds.
 For the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods."

Offline Chilli

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2014, 12:26:31 PM »
Fleet movement and Task Group Control +1

I will have to read more to see if it does anything to both discourage dive bombing B26s, or ack hanging Corsairs.....  :old:

Offline 49MERLIN

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2014, 01:17:04 PM »
I like it! +1
Don't know how easy it would be to get individual ships to slow down in the TG though

Offline bustr

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2014, 06:46:59 PM »
Aside from your first post which briefly mentions the eye candy as a result of damage, this quoted post seems to be the only one that actually is a straight response to the idea I put forth.  Otherwise, your previous 2 posts really didn't amount to much more than rambling on about the past.  So, what is your exact problem with the idea here?  I want to hear what you have to say.  You may very well state something I completely missed, or have a better line to draw from one point to another.  Getting information from different perspectives helps out after all.  I only request few things in your response;  Don't "beat around the bush" like you normally do.  Get to the point.  Stay on point.


While I may only be 32, there was something I was told that may be of help to you: "Respect people regardless of age.  Otherwise, do not ask for respect when you give none."

About on schedule for everyone's life cycle, that you try to build the tower of Babel that didn't crash under it's own weight.

Complexity is it's own worst enemy while being the hallmark of youth trying to make their mark on the universe before they become the old poops they despise for getting in their way. As you get on in life, you also learn that respect is an illusion most often used as a personal ploy in intellectual exchanges to hide anger. Something only important to the one's worried about it, over being granted to themselves or denying it to others like friending on Face Book. With about as much value in the real world.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Volron

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2014, 01:38:14 PM »
Fleet movement and Task Group Control +1

I will have to read more to see if it does anything to both discourage dive bombing B26s, or ack hanging Corsairs.....  :old:

If determined enough, nothing. :lol  I'm guilty of flying my AC straight into a DD or CA, but usually because I'm missing parts and only have enough control to do it. :D



About on schedule for everyone's life cycle, that you try to build the tower of Babel that didn't crash under it's own weight.

Complexity is it's own worst enemy while being the hallmark of youth trying to make their mark on the universe before they become the old poops they despise for getting in their way. As you get on in life, you also learn that respect is an illusion most often used as a personal ploy in intellectual exchanges to hide anger. Something only important to the one's worried about it, over being granted to themselves or denying it to others like friending on Face Book. With about as much value in the real world.

Hmmm.....  And we see here that you not only "beat around the bush", as per your norm, you hide it all under a guise of intellect.

Straight to point:

"You idea is just too complex for my liking."

I have just now showed you how not to beat around the bush.  Straight to point, stayed on point.



It is an interesting act you put forth for everyone's enjoyment.  I would say you should drop it, but that would be pointless.  You will act however you wish to act.  You are your own person afterall.  However, you are far from being superior over anyone here.  So maybe a change in your act may be beneficial to you.
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline Zoney

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2014, 02:33:26 PM »
What a great idea, for a different game.

-1

I would not want to see any more resources spent on something that has very little to do with aircraft.  there are already plenty of things to do if you don't want to fly.

BTW Volron, what is your in-game handle please?

Never mind, I see it's "Volron", you just haven't done a sortie yet this month.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 02:35:21 PM by Zoney »
Wag more, bark less.

Offline Volron

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2014, 03:47:41 PM »
While I do hope they intend to work on this aspect before sending out the new engine, it's not meant as in; "Now, now, now!  GIMME!".  I just wish for more towards the Naval side of things.  At the very least I hope to sea some float planes implemented upon release. :)  But things will come as they come. :aok
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline RngFndr

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2014, 05:53:05 PM »
While I do hope they intend to work on this aspect before sending out the new engine, it's not meant as in; "Now, now, now!  GIMME!".  I just wish for more towards the Naval side of things.  At the very least I hope to sea some float planes implemented upon release. :)  But things will come as they come. :aok

Hey man, many get what you are sayin
A lot of us have asked for this kind of thing, for years..
Because this is the aspect of WW2 that interests us..
Just not here I guess.. And doesn't seem to be any interest..

So my naval warfare "interest" takes me elsewhere..
Not my fault man, LOL
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 05:56:28 PM by RngFndr »