Author Topic: Yak3 Climb  (Read 1578 times)

Offline FLS

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Re: Yak3 Climb
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2014, 12:00:38 AM »
Your best climb rate is at your best lift to drag ratio but your steepest climb angle will always be near stall speed. The P-38 also benefits from induced flow over the wings from the engines. Induced flow at max thrust increases lift at low airspeeds and allows a slightly higher max AOA.

Offline bozon

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Re: Yak3 Climb
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2014, 01:48:27 AM »
Your best climb rate is at your best lift to drag ratio but your steepest climb angle will always be near stall speed.
Lift to drag ratio does not change much for the wing - both scale like the air speed squared. The wings do not do much for climbing - they only provide enough lift to counter gravity. The steeper the climb angle, the less lift is required from the wings. What matters to climb is excess power and that just depends on total drag and effective engine power - assuming that your wings are capable of producing the minimal required lift, which places a limit on minimum speed to fly at all.

Speed for steepest climb angle also depends on excess power. The less excess, the closer it will be to the best climb speed, otherwise the plane will not climb at all.

edit:
about the P-38, it does not climb at a very steep angle - not in a steady climb that is. What it does is maintain control down to very low speeds due to zero torque and effective flaps. So, if it zooms with a P51, even if they zoom climb wing to wing, the 51 will flip over much sooner if it goes steeper than its steady climb angle. Yak for example will flip over at around 90 mph if it keeps full throttle, or throttle back in order not to flip, but then lose the engine pull to keep it going up. The yak compensates by having a crazy climb rate at 90-100 mph that keeps the climb angle very steep - steady climb angle!
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 01:56:25 AM by bozon »
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Offline FLS

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Re: Yak3 Climb
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2014, 02:28:46 AM »
Lift to drag changes with speed. That's why your best climb rate is at a faster speed than your steepest climb angle.

Offline bozon

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Re: Yak3 Climb
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2014, 02:49:25 PM »
Lift to drag changes with speed.
Lift to drag has little to do with climb. Lift hardly change, always close to 1G, while drag does change via its two components. So it is a bit odd to say that lift to drag change, when lift is irrelevant and constant. You can say that weight to drag change as well...

That's why your best climb rate is at a faster speed than your steepest climb angle.
Best climb is simply at the speed of minimum drag while holding ~1G. 1G means that the lift is given.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 02:54:22 PM by bozon »
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline FLS

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Re: Yak3 Climb
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2014, 03:08:55 PM »
So you understand that the given lift with minimum drag gives your best rate of climb. And you understand that speed affects drag. So you're saying that when the ratio of drag to lift is optimal because of your speed, you get the best climb rate. You disagree then you explain that I'm correct.

Offline bozon

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Re: Yak3 Climb
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2014, 12:58:34 PM »
Lift to drag is usually used to describe the efficiency of a wing and that is close to constant with speed in most conditions. It is also important for powerless glide slope. For powered climb rate, only the absolute drag matters. I never said you were completely wrong, it is just that the lift part has little to do with it.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline FLS

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Re: Yak3 Climb
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2014, 01:57:55 PM »
When drag changes and lift is constant then lift to drag changes. Seems simple enough.

Lift and drag vary with AOA and speed. Your best lift to drag is at a particular AOA. Vary the AOA and the lift to drag changes.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 02:15:37 PM by FLS »