OK...so who flies the LA-7?

[GScholz]

Oh, and yeah 20 mph makes a big difference in a slow fight.

 


This is becoming like reading youtube comments... I always regret it afterwards.

[Lusche]

You just don't get it do ya Scottie

Oh, and yeah 20 mph makes a big difference in a slow fight. It comes down to which plane can flip over more quickly and still retain E better causing the other to flutter out in the stall. The La7 can gain this advantage, which can allow it to be better in a slow fight. However, the la5 may be able to roll inside of it at slower speeds. While the planses may be considered "close" on paper, one plane is better adept to handling planes in the MA, and that is the LA7. You cant agrue that either. The overall 20-40 mph speed difference makes a hell of a difference in the MA.

Your own charts are showing you square in the face that these planes are not that identical, the speed chart is my opinion the biggest indication, givin this one simple "fact" that this plane incurs around 20 mph more speed at any givin point flying straight tells me that it can out climb the La5 in a straight up verticle climb to the top, while also being able to dive more quickly as well.

No matter what you say, the la7 is a better overall fighter in the MA and does have all around better performance charts than the LA5, even if they are close. It is obvious that one can feel these differences in their flying as well. Therefore, both of these statements validate that the La7 is a better overall fighter with better performance.  

Nobody has disputed a top speed advantage of the La-7 over the La-5
Nobody claimed the planes are identical.
Nobody disputed that the La-7 is absolutely the overall better MA fighter.

[Crash Orange]

A case in point:  Several months ago there was a discussion in the Help and Training forum on the A6M vs the F4F.  Going strictly by the stats no one in their right mind would engage an A6M with an F4F, however, during the Pacific War scenario the F4F dominated the A6M in every frame.

Off the original subject, but I think to the extent that was caused by any difference between the planes, it was the result of people looking at the wrong stats beforehand. The F4Fs didn't win because there were subtle differences in flight performance not reflected in the performance charts, they won because while the A6M2 can fly loops around the F4F, it also has anemic guns with a woefully inadequate ammo supply, instantly turns into a Roman candle if it's hit by so much as a piece of pigeon poop, and disintegrates if it tries to follow any Grumman in a dive. And those disadvantages matter more in scenario play than in the MA because the style of play is so different.

[pipz]

I grow tired of repeating myself...

Me too.
They changed the center section of the wing. They modified the control surfaces. They refined the fuselage. The la5 had a spade stick while the LA7 had a US style stick. They modified the instrument cluster as well. Apparently the VVS thought it was worth while.

[Karnak]

Off the original subject, but I think to the extent that was caused by any difference between the planes, it was the result of people looking at the wrong stats beforehand. The F4Fs didn't win because there were subtle differences in flight performance not reflected in the performance charts, they won because while the A6M2 can fly loops around the F4F, it also has anemic guns with a woefully inadequate ammo supply, instantly turns into a Roman candle if it's hit by so much as a piece of pigeon poop, and disintegrates if it tries to follow any Grumman in a dive. And those disadvantages matter more in scenario play than in the MA because the style of play is so different.

F4F's durability is, IMO, exaggerated in AH which makes the contest almost impossible for the A6Ms.

[DmonSlyr]

This is becoming like reading youtube comments... I always regret it afterwards.

You will regret it because you are wrong.

[2bighorn]

Perfect example of how this "feeling" is completely subjective. Mechanic "feels" the LA-7 is the superior stall fighter.

Mechanic feels it because the difference is there. Performance charts are only useful for few basic metrics. You should have know that...

I bet that if we could turn the cockpit off and all other distinguishing features neither one of you could consistently tell them apart from low speed performance alone.

In AH, LA7 feels differently at slow speeds. It's not as stable at these speeds and high angle of attack as LA5, hence you can throw it around better than LA5. Whilst difference is not huge, it is very much detectable if you fly both a lot.

In short: less stability = more maneuverability, and that, in essence, is difference between LA5 and LA7.

[Crash Orange]

Me too.They changed the center section of the wing. They modified the control surfaces. They refined the fuselage. The la5 had a spade stick while the LA7 had a US style stick. They modified the instrument cluster as well. Apparently the VVS thought it was worth while.

No plane in AH has a wing, control surfaces, fuselage, or stick. They are collections of digits meant to model the interactions of those things based on digital inputs from players' electronic controllers. The real-life effect of those changes to the physical planes may or may not be reflected in the modeling. That's the real question here, whether the La-7 in the game has differences from the La-5 in the game that are coded into the plane models but not apparent from the top speed, climb, and acceleration charts. The only sure way to answer that question is to talk to someone who knows the code. Subjective impressions of players can, as we see here, differ significantly.

[GScholz]

You will regret it because you are wrong.

I never regret being proven wrong.

[GScholz]

Mechanic feels it because the difference is there. Performance charts are only useful for few basic metrics. You should have know that...

Yes a few basic metrics like top speed at various altitude, climb/acceleration at various altitudes, acceleration at various speeds, turning circle with or without flaps, degrees per second with or without flaps. You know... all the important stuff.

In AH, LA7 feels differently at slow speeds.

Not to me they don't, and I've flown them quite regularly. Mostly La-7 of course.

In short: less stability = more maneuverability...

You're obviously an aeronautical genius.

[palef]

No plane in AH has a wing, control surfaces, fuselage, or stick. They are collections of digits meant to model the interactions of those things based on digital inputs from players' electronic controllers. The real-life effect of those changes to the physical planes may or may not be reflected in the modeling. That's the real question here, whether the La-7 in the game has differences from the La-5 in the game that are coded into the plane models but not apparent from the top speed, climb, and acceleration charts. The only sure way to answer that question is to talk to someone who knows the code. Subjective impressions of players can, as we see here, differ significantly.

OMG, you're arguing that "real life" is somehow not a collection of numbers? You know there's more empty space than real stuff by orders and order and orders of magnitude? Math defines everything. Everything measurable is capable of being defined mathematically.

Also; It's a outrage!

[pipz]

I was referring to the real plane. We are kinda talkin about both here...I think...maybe 

[pipz]

OMG, you're arguing that "real life" is somehow not a collection of numbers? You know there's more empty space than real stuff by orders and order and orders of magnitude? Math defines everything. Everything measurable is capable of being defined mathematically.
Also; It's a outrage!

That's some deep thoughts there bro! I have to go get high and try to wrap my mind around it!    

Now where did I put that lava lamp.........

[2bighorn]

Yes a few basic metrics like top speed at various altitude, climb/acceleration at various altitudes, acceleration at various speeds, turning circle with or without flaps, degrees per second with or without flaps. You know... all the important stuff.

Ah OK, important stuff. If I look at LA5 and LA7 AH charts, there are differences.

Not to me they don't, and I've flown them quite regularly. Mostly La-7 of course.

"Important Stuff" says Mechanic (Batfink) and DmonSlyr are right and you're wrong.

You're obviously an aeronautical genius.

Even if I would be one, I would still be inferior to professional charts wrangler like you, right?

[GScholz]

Ah OK, important stuff. If I look at LA5 and LA7 AH charts, there are differences.

At high speed yes. We're not discussing performance at high speed. Are you deliberately trying to be obtuse?