Author Topic: Handguns  (Read 1931 times)

Offline 68valu

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2014, 10:37:43 PM »
Take a concealed carry class if you haven't done so already if you are able and a weapon without a safety to carry will help in the legal process if you must use it. Hopefully it never comes to that. If the two individuals have felony records, usually a visit from the law or as stated, an attorney will deter most, but a lot of those types aren't to bright and may try a reach around with an unknown third dirtbag. Keep vigilant.




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Offline Rob52240

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2014, 11:50:29 PM »


Arsenal AF2011
You don't need a smaller gun, you need a bigger pocket.

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If I had a gun with 3 bullets and I was locked in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler, Saddam and Zipp...  I would shoot Zipp 3 times.

Offline Brooke

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2014, 01:21:47 AM »
That Buckeye report had to be one of the most unscientific studies Ive ever read.

I don't doubt that in your line of work, something more substantial is absolutely the correct choice, but the study is not unscientific.  It is one of the few studies that looks at the most important thing for civilian self defense:  how many shots does it take before the attack stops.  Also, the data set is general attacks where gunshots were fired, so typical examples are going to be robberies, muggings, attempted rapes, "knockout game" type interactions, etc., and not heavily weighted toward drug-crazed lunatics trying to the last breath to kill a person or toward drug kingpins shooting it out with authorities until one side or the other is dead.  In these typical cases, it wouldn't be surprising that most attackers stop after one shot -- and that's exactly what the data shows.

Now, it wouldn't matter if an S&W revolver was as easy to carry as a small .22 -- then why not carry the S&W?  For a lot of people, though, carrying a S&W revolver 18 hours a day every day isn't practical and isn't going to happen, but carrying a very small .22 might.

Also, the author of the study isn't a crackpot -- he has a solid background.  "Greg Ellifritz is the full time firearms and defensive tactics training officer for a central Ohio police department. He holds instructor or master instructor certifications in more than 75 different weapon systems, defensive tactics programs and police specialty areas. Greg has a master's degree in Public Policy and Management and is an instructor for both the Ohio Peace Officer's Training Academy and the Tactical Defense Institute."

Offline zack1234

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2014, 01:51:10 AM »
Viewing youtube of crimminals getting shot is my favorite method of relaxation :old:

If your a crimminal and you get wasted doing your crime i feel all warm inside

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Offline Patches1

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2014, 02:34:31 AM »

If you're going to carry a pistol for the primary purpose of self defense, I would not recommend any caliber less than a .38 special.

That being said, my choice of a small caliber gun to carry in my pocket is a S&W .22 Magnum revolver with a 1 3/4 " barrel. This gun is not intended to stand off at a distance and fire, it is a gun meant for face-to-face close combat encounter.

I chose a revolver over an automatic for reliability and I carry it in a pocket holster so that it doesn't collect pocket lint.



"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem."- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, General, USMC

Offline Brooke

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2014, 03:06:24 AM »
Viewing youtube of crimminals getting shot is my favorite method of relaxation :old:

If your a crimminal and you get wasted doing your crime i feel all warm inside



 :aok

Offline Flench

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2014, 06:06:46 AM »
The cop's must of picked up dude yesterday for I made paper's out on him . He rang my phone off the hook until I did a block . I don't think he be coming back to my house tho . He did not like looking down the barrel of my 270 to well .
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Offline Tumor

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2014, 09:23:31 AM »
This is my cc gun:




Can be had for under $300.  Small but not too small and has a good reputation. 

I've been extremely happy with mine.
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Offline helbent

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2014, 09:29:15 AM »
I carry a Glock 27 gen4 in a Sneaky Pete holster.  It is 40 cal double action semi auto pistol.  However, it is very heavy on my waist band and I have been looking for something a bit lighter.  I love my weapon and I feel that is has the stopping power for any situation, but it's just too heavy.
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Offline SilverZ06

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2014, 09:37:14 AM »
I carry a Glock 27 gen4 in a Sneaky Pete holdster.  It is 40 cal double action semi auto pistol.  However, it is very heavy on my waist band and I have been looking for something a bit lighter.  I love my weapon and I feel that is has the stopping power for any situation, but it's just too heavy.

my g27 was my first carry weapon and my favorite hand gun.  However,  like you, I find it too bulky to carry comfortably. The 360pd was the perfect answer for me.  It fit comfortably in my front pocket and packs plenty of punch.  Since I sold my 360pd to offset some cost of my shot gun I have been back to carrying the g27. I seriously regret selling the 360pd.

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2014, 09:55:27 AM »
Study was very subjective Brooke. Even Evan admits his data is to be used as a guide only. First off the data pool is small. Second its a statistical fact that at least 5 out of 6 people shot with handguns will survive, and a BG still breathing is a BG who is dangerous.

The author himself admits he doesnt, and couldnt, use the types of bullet as a factor in the study. Now since the type of projectile is as important as the caliber itself the lack of inclusion of said data, ITSELF, invalidates the study. My guess is he uses a lot of military data cause 1/2 of his 9mm info is from ball ammo and ball ammo is just not an effective bullet design nor does it transfer energy as effectively as JHPs or even Lead.

His use of head shots is also an aberration that I dont believe Evan used. The reason why is because head shots are notoriously unreliable. Not only is the CSN a small target but there are even parts of the brain that, even when hit, wont stop the attack. There are only three small target area's in front, side, and base, of the head that CAN cause a immediate shut down when shot with a handgun. Ive seen guys hit in the head with a .45 have the bullet wrap around their skull and they themselves walk to the hospital. One guy drove after getting hit accidentally on NY Eve.

To his credit the author admits at the end that most of his data really doesnt mean much. This has always been the problem with such studies, that the fact that there are just to many "unknowns" in these incidents that how very hard to quantify. The author does make one statement that I dont agree with and thats regarding the use of mouse guns. He leaves the reader feeling a .22 is just as good as a .38 and that just isnt so.

When I first started this business over 30 years ago "most" of what we took from these gangsters, and most of what they used, was all .22s, .25s, .380s, and almost always ball ammo. The guns themselves were pretty much crap like Lorcin's or Astra's. Now I cant even remember the last gang shooting I handled where a cheap mouse gun with lousy ammo was used. They have grown more sophisticated and rich with drug money "I suspect the Internet" and nowdays a quality 9mm and quality JHPs are a minimum for the gang "shoota's". I was even once shot at by a shooter who had a .357 and 125 JHPs.

Now one would think there would be a corresponding increase with stops and fatalities with the use of better weapons and bullets ; However, There has also been a corresponding advancement in emergency medical science and EMS response times. Wounds that were almost always fatal 30 years ago are now routinely survivable. But all in all theres no way I'd ever tell anyone to carry a .22 to protect themselves.

I once had a .22 Beretta and had it in my pocket when two guys tried to rob me one morning. Without going into detail the piece did not bring me comfort and I sold it the next day and never again carried a mouse gun.
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Offline Flench

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2014, 11:19:31 AM »
I like something like this maybe . Carry's a 410 round .
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2014, 11:25:29 AM »
If you want a pocket gun a S&W air lite or Ruger LCR is your best bet imo.
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Offline Flench

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2014, 12:24:37 PM »
If you want a pocket gun a S&W air lite or Ruger LCR is your best bet imo.
Yeah but I can load this one with 0 buck and have like 12 pieces of lead coming out .
Army of Muppets-"Failure is impossible"-Death before dishonor
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2014, 12:48:48 PM »
Yeah but I can load this one with 0 buck and have like 12 pieces of lead coming out .

410 derringers should be kept in the drawer unloaded so if some moron comes to rob you he'll find that instead of the much better gun you have hidden somewhere else.   :)
Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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