Ethics of HO Shooting.....

[Changeup]

It happens.  Its going to keep happening.  Then, the sun will explode and HO the Earth.  Its part of the balance of life in every solar system.

[DmonSlyr]

This one time at flight camp,
this dude try to HO me, but I dodged it and reversed him and killed him and he died.

[bustr]

You thin anybody gonna bother go offline and try what I just described..............

[zxrex]

yea Bustr I'll try it.  My gunnery suks so I've been doing a little offline practice.  I'll give it a try next time.  I've had merges were I thought they weren't going to fire, thought cool nice 1v1.  What was i thinking?  Might help my gunnery and reading the situation.

[guncrasher]

You thin anybody gonna bother go offline and try what I just described..............

why?  I can just go in a shoot somebody on the face with that cheating gun sight you gave me .  you know how many pm's I have gotten cause I can ho from 1k out and leave without a scratch 

as for the rest of you dweebs dont ask for the gunsight, it's under lock and key 


semp

[bustr]

semp,

Funny thing about all of those ACM Gen1-Gen8 gunsights I had you and messiah testing. When I finally sat down and really read all of the gunnery manuals from ww2. I was simply reinventing the wheel visa direct observation. I still didn't understand how and why it worked until after putting in the time to RTFM all of my manuals. Now I'm curious because I've forgotten what they look like. I think I've got them archived somewhere. Last time I loaded one up for grins, it did seem too easy. But, that could also be a combination of my current experience and I naturally goto the alignment points I placed in those ACM sights now.

One variation I started working on just before I stopped, was the bottom quarter bisection rays. I started noticing if I adjusted a custom angle so the rays ran center of the wing gun streams, your lead shots were better using them as guides. It was turning into a lot of work since the angles were different on a number of fighters and so was the inside elevation lead line due to the different ballistics of guns. You remember that one you slip under the con's wings and he goes boom. First time you used one you were so happy you called me a cheeter.......

[EagleDNY]

The guys whining to you on 200 about a HO shot are the same guys that wouldn't have any problems with the "ethics" of spawn camping you in a vehicle, vulching you on the runway, or strafing you for a kill after you have glided to a landing with your engine out.   Just kill them - it doesn't matter if you take the head-on shot or not.   Anyone coming straight at you - assume they will open fire as soon as they can.  If you want to chivalrously land next to your opponent and give him a salute, fly the WWI arena (actually they will take the HO shot over there as well so don't really try that).

That said - you want to learn ACM tactics that let you shoot up your opponents plane without giving him a shot back at you in return (IF possible).  If you are in a situation where you have a clearly inferior plane, the HO shot might be the only one you get (and that only once) - so take it.   

If you get in a good furball with someone and you get him (or he gets you) - try to learn from it.  Some of the best moves I learned were from going back over the recordings of my flight and seeing what we being done to me.  If you feel it was a good fight, give him a page with a <Salute> in it -- whether you won it or not.  You will soon find out who the whiners are and who is a worthy opponent. 

[Zimme83]

I get more pissed when a guy run to ack as soon as u get the upper hand and then come back and vulch u when landing. If I'm involved in a 1v1 BTW 2 bases and the other guy runs to ack i think "OK he didn't want to fight" so then i just leave. And then the same guy come running and try to kill me when I'm about to land. He technically isn't doing anything wrong but in a pure 1v1 fought just for the fight there should be a little more of a gentleman's agreement than in a furball. If he wants to leave for whatever reason i can let him to that, the kill itself is not important, but then i want to be able to land w/o getting vulched by the same guy.

OK, there are no rule against it but its still very frustrating and annoying.

[Volron]

The whole "HOing" phenomena is almost exclusively an Aces High thing.  Not only are head-ons in other contemporary on-line sims extremely rare (might have something to do with the continuously computer range indication, I dunno... that's the best theory I have heard) but when they happen in other sims I have never heard whining about it.  Rare head-ons, even rarer whining.

Coming back here, there is something oddly comforting about it... looking at the red icon coming in... using your jedi-senses to determine the level of your opponent... It's unlikely that P-51 has his convergence set to 1500, but he sure is already on them guns... gonna be a quick fight hahahaha

Not so sure bout that.  "HOing" takes place quite a bit in WT, more so than here truth be told.  But there are far less complaints about it there than here.  People just accept it and move on.  Not sure why it is not like that here.

[Latrobe]

Not so sure bout that.  "HOing" takes place quite a bit in WT, more so than here truth be told.  But there are far less complaints about it there than here.  People just accept it and move on.  Not sure why it is not like that here.

My guess on that is a lot of people expect fights in the MA to be like DA fights: fair-and-square, 1-on-1, dueling-style. That's what the DA is for. The MA is where you go for an all out, no holds barred, battle to the death. That's why you see lots of complaining of "ganging", "HOing", "Picking", etc etc in the MA. I see the DA as the old European gentlemanly duel while the MA is the all out bar fight.

Go to the DA if you want the fair, co-alt, co-e, no HOing fights. Go to the MA if you want to all out brawls never knowing what the expect.

I'll admit, it is nice to see a bit of chivalry in the MA every once in a while but you shouldn't be expecting mercy from someone whose job it is to kill you all the time.

[Scca]

Lame, weak, noobish, "tard" move...  All are not true.  Some feel that way, because they die to them, but all are incorrect...

The REAL reason HO's aren't the best ACM is they put you into a bad situation and you will die more often.  I actually expect the other guy to HO, I set them up so they think a HO will be successful, then I reverse them and shoot them down. 

The only reason to not HO is it puts you at a disadvantage.  If you really desire to get good at this game, then learn to avoid the HO, and use it to set up a second merge where you are on their 6.  Capitalizing on the greed of 90% of the AH population is a great way to win a fight.  If you would like me to demonstrate what I am talking about I would be glad to.   

To the HO whiners, learn to avoid it, and move on..

[Zacherof]

It's a no no if in a duel. If you have the shot in the ma take it. I try not to do it unless I'm pretty much being gang banged then I'll fight to live take each and every shot I can

[xPoisonx]

I'll admit, it is nice to see a bit of chivalry in the MA every once in a while but you shouldn't be expecting mercy from someone whose job it is to kill you all the time.

You shot down my 262 while I was blacked out and trying to land you dirty vulcher! I had 17 pic-- err kills.

[Zerstorer]

Not so sure bout that.  "HOing" takes place quite a bit in WT, more so than here truth be told.  But there are far less complaints about it there than here.  People just accept it and move on.  Not sure why it is not like that here.

It does indeed take place quite a bit in WT...and just about every other multiplayer online air combat game.  The reason few complain about it is simple:  Front quarter shots were a valid tactic, historically speaking, and so it is natural to conclude those tactics will be used in a historical simulation/game.  So the question isn't why people accept HOing in other games, but rather why some people in AH do not.  

IMO....the answer is that this game, unlike many of the others, appears to have a much higher percentage of players who have a 'Duelist Mentality'.  This mentality has become more and more the accepted norm over the years as the player base has dwindled.  

To a 'duelist' the DA, and the rules that apply there, are the only ones which define the 'skilled' from the 'unskilled'.  These individuals tend to apply DA rules and concepts to MA combat, either not understanding or ignoring that the are not applicable.  They also tend to talk a great deal about 'honor' and attempt to enforce the concept of a fair fight....neither of which apply to the historical reality of WWII air combat.  It's unsurprising that some (but not all) of these players have either never played another online air combat simulation or when they have done so tend not to like it for obvious reasons e.g. The other game sucks because the players are a bunch of unskilled 'vulchers', 'alt tards' and 'HO sissys' who refuse to fight on the deck flaps out at stall speeds.

[Triton28]

It does indeed take place quite a bit in WT...and just about every other multiplayer online air combat game.  The reason few complain about it is simple:  Front quarter shots were a valid tactic, historically speaking, and so it is natural to conclude those tactics will be used in a historical simulation/game.  So the question isn't why people accept HOing in other games, but rather why some people in AH do not.  

IMO....the answer is that this game, unlike many of the others, appears to have a much higher percentage of players who have a 'Duelist Mentality'.  This mentality has become more and more the accepted norm over the years as the player base has dwindled.  

To a 'duelist' the DA, and the rules that apply there, are the only ones which define the 'skilled' from the 'unskilled'.  These individuals tend to apply DA rules and concepts to MA combat, either not understanding or ignoring that the are not applicable.  They also tend to talk a great deal about 'honor' and attempt to enforce the concept of a fair fight....neither of which apply to the historical reality of WWII air combat.  It's unsurprising that some (but not all) of these players have either never played another online air combat simulation or when they have done so tend not to like it for obvious reasons e.g. The other game sucks because the players are a bunch of unskilled 'vulchers', 'alt tards' and 'HO sissys' who refuse to fight on the deck flaps out at stall speeds.

It's not a duelist mentality, it's a sporting mentality.  If you view this game as a sport, you're more apt to forgo face shooting because it doesn't require any skill other than making sure your lead is under the target and not waiting too long to shoot.  Would you rather have an arena filled with sporting types who like to test their skill in maneuvering their aircraft to gain advantages or dice rollers who count their HO shot stats and have figured that they win more than they lose, so the results dictate they continue face shooting as a front line tactic to win?  There is nearly infinite replayability in this game with the former, and not so much with the latter.