Author Topic: Notes on Aircraft and Units - Winter Line  (Read 654 times)

Offline perdue3

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Notes on Aircraft and Units - Winter Line
« on: November 06, 2014, 03:26:31 PM »
This scenario looks like a blast and the CM's have put in a lot of effort once again to make this happen. For that I say thanks. I understand that the objectives, and tasks for each CiC is important and takes a lot of time to work out. I think that maybe in the focus of the objectives and format of the Scenario, not much time was left to handle units and aircraft. This is perfectly understandable as you guys have a heavy work load when designing a scenario. So, just as a member of the community that participates, I would like to let you know of a few things that were missed.

First of all, the timeline is way too large. I gather that it is roughly eleven months. Which is grounds for 6 frames or rolling plane set. I figure rolling plane set is not an option this late so, we will work around that. Considering there is no definitive timeline or a specific few months, Ill work with 332nd FG. On a hunch, I feel like the scenario was designed around that particular group. In the setup, they have P-51B's. They received these P-51B/C's in early July of 1944 from 325th FG as they upgraded. So, this scenario takes place in mid-July 1944.

There are problems when lining up mid-July with the Luftwaffe in Italy. In other words, when 332nd FG receives P-51B's many of the Luftwaffe units in this scenario were gone. I explain:


III/JG 53 leaves Italy for the Western Front one June 2, 1944.

I/SG 4 leaves Italy for Eastern Front on July 1, 1944.

II/SG 4 leaves Italy for Eastern Front on July 1, 1944.

IV/JG 4 was created on October 20, 1944 in Brandenburg and the unit was never in Italy (II/JG 5 was in France and Norway before the founding of IV/JG 4).


The remaining squadrons for the Luftwaffe in this setup have all gone back to Germany by August 9, 1944. So if Frame 1 is mid-July, Frame 4 has to be in early August or there is no aerial opponent. If it does begin in mid-July, four squadrons that are in the setup, need to be erased.

Also, if 332nd FG have P-51B/C's, 325th FG should have P-51D. As of the graduation from P-40/P-39's for 325th FG, 332nd FG received all of their hand me downs (P-47D, P-51B/C). Unless the 325th FG and 332nd FG both have P-40, they should never be in the same aircraft until they both have P-51D in late 1944.

One more note: As of February and March, all Bf 109G-6 units in Italy had been upgraded with tall tail versions. Performance charts favor the AH Bf 109G-14 over the AH Bf 109G-6 when comparing to the late 43 variant of Bf 109G-6.



So, as you can see, there are problems when aligning 332nd FG in P-51's and the Luftwaffe in Italy. However, this plane set is too good to tear apart. I truly believe the CM Team did a great job with the objectives and balance (excluding the G-6 vs ALL those 51B's).

My projected solution:

Rome was the target for the Allies. Rome is captured June 4, 1944, two days before D-Day. Why is that important? Germany has a new front developing in France to go along with Soviet offensive moving towards Germany. Rome is lost, Americans are pushing in the West. Luftwaffe retreats from Italy. But, in April, the fighting in Italy was intense. This intensity remained until late June. I suggest making the timeline of this scenario April, May, and June of 1944.

If April-June 1944 is the timeline, everything stays the same except:



325th FG - P-51B (can be given P-51B's as they received them in May.)

332nd FG  - P-47D-25 (receives P-47D from 325th FG in May.)

52nd FG - P-51B or Spit 8/9 (received P-51B in early May.)

III/JG 53 leaves in early June, so that would be a CM discretion.

IV/JG 4 didn't exist so they are eliminated and replaced with (14.(Jabo)/JG 5 or I/JG 2)




Again, I think these small changes add to the dynamic of the scenario and gives an accurate feel that we are so used to with these events. Lately, I feel that Scenarios have taken a less important look at units and aircraft. This would be an easy change and if you would like me to email some stuff with sources, etc. I am more than willing. Thank you for putting such hard work into this setup gentlemen, it looks good. If you spot some errors on my part, feel free to tell me. I only spent an hour or so looking up the information (most of the time was dusting off the books! :) ). If you decide not to change anything, at least I had an excuse to dust the library.





« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 03:34:52 PM by perdue3 »
C.O. Kommando Nowotny 

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Offline -ammo-

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Re: Notes on Aircraft and Units - Winter Line
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2014, 03:33:50 PM »
You have good knowledge of the campaign.  Having said that, I think we should just play it out as the CMs have designed.  :salute
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Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline perdue3

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Re: Notes on Aircraft and Units - Winter Line
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2014, 07:56:10 PM »
You have good knowledge of the campaign.  Having said that, I think we should just play it out as the CMs have designed.  :salute

Even with the inaccuracies that have very simple solutions?
C.O. Kommando Nowotny 

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