P-38J vs P38L Flight Performance in AH

[Randy1]

I haven't been able to see a difference in handling yet.  What is it you're seeing?

To me it is getting the nose around a bit better with the J as if it weighed less than the L.  The speed range here we talking about is less than 200.  Like Triton, I flew the L for a whole tour then went to the J.  After a whole tour in the l when you take up the J your mind expects the nose to come around the same but are taken with how smooth the J comes around.  Other terms I might use is the J elevator response seems better.  The L seems tail heavy.

Not sure one could try one then the other and see the difference. 

[GScholz]

Here we go again with "it feels better"...

[Randy1]

Here we go again with "it feels better"...

Not feels  . . .  is better.  Just can't prove it so I have nothing.   The J may be the best perk point generator in the game.  In real life I would think the boosted ailerons would be super.  In AH, not so much.  The up-trim is just as good if not better than the dive flap simulation on the L

I know from so many old post I have read, HTC accumulated a lot of data to model each plane.   Different sources have different numbers for things like HP, weight, and speed on the J and L models but I am sure they choose the most documented and reliable numbers they could find.  After all these years they should be well vetted. 

I just keep wondering about the simulated dive flap treatment on the L and the simulated dampened roll rate on the J.  Is there a difference modeled in by accident?

Again I have zero proof and lay no claim to an error in HTC modeling of the J and L. I will stand by the L and J fly differently and let it go at that.  Both 38s are still supper planes and will always be my favorite.

[GScholz]

If you have no proof or "I have nothing", then the only thing you can have is a "feeling". If you had something more you'd have something more than "nothing".

[Randy1]

If you have no proof or "I have nothing", then the only thing you can have is a "feeling". If you had something more you'd have something more than "nothing".

We posted just about the same time.  See the reply just before yours.

[Ack-Ack]

Not feels  . . .  is better.  Just can't prove it so I have nothing.   The J may be the best perk point generator in the game.  In real life I would think the boosted ailerons would be super.  In AH, not so much.  The up-trim is just as good if not better than the dive flap simulation on the L

The P-38J is not the best perk farmer in the game, the P-38G is far better in generating perks than the J will ever be.  And on top of that, there are far more other planes (like the C202) that are far better in farming perks.  

I don't understand your comment about the boosted ailerons.  They work on the L in real life as they do in AH, so I'm confused by your comment that they worked in real life but not in AH.  No, trimming out of a high speed dive in the P-38J isn't as effective as using the dive flaps in the P-38L in a high speed dive.  At least with the P-38L in a high speed dive with the dive flaps employed, you still have limited (although sluggish) control, while at the point you need to use trim to pull out of a dive in the P-38J, you do not have effective control of the Lightning.
  

I just keep wondering about the simulated dive flap treatment on the L and the simulated dampened roll rate on the J.  Is there a difference modeled in by accident?

Again I have zero proof and lay no claim to an error in HTC modeling of the J and L. I will stand by the L and J fly differently and let it go at that.  Both 38s are still supper planes and will always be my favorite.

What "simulated dive flap treatment" are you speaking about with the P-38L?  Or the "simulated dampened roll rate of the J"?  Of course there is going to be a difference in handling between an early P-38J model (like the J we have in game) and the P-38L because of the features introduced with the L model (boosted ailerons, dive flaps, etc).

ack-ack

[Randy1]

From what I read, although the aileron boost increased the roll rate speeds at higher speeds the biggest benefit was reduced pilot arm fatigue for the whole sortie.   The L in AH at speeds where the simulated boosted ailerons pays off is often too fast.  Only on rare occasions have I wished I had taken the L over the J.

Ran out of time will post more later.

[FLS]

The boost reduced the stick force by 1/6. It didn't directly increase the roll rate, it just made high roll rates less work for the real pilot. In AH our spring stick force is the same but our "pilot" is strength limited so the J model rolls slower at high speeds from reduced stick response.

[Ack-Ack]

From what I read, although the aileron boost increased the roll rate speeds at higher speeds the biggest benefit was reduced pilot arm fatigue for the whole sortie.   The L in AH at speeds where the simulated boosted ailerons pays off is often too fast.  Only on rare occasions have I wished I had taken the L over the J.

Ran out of time will post more later.

IIRC, it's at 325mph IAS that the boosted ailerons start to be effective in the P-38L in game.

ack-ack

[DmonSlyr]

Here we go again with "it feels better"...

You are the one bringing in the graphs.

While the inside turn rate may be a tiny bit smaller with flaps. The graphs only show a 2D demintional ideaoligy of one specific part during a fight. Which plane can pull a better loop inside after the turns? Does the slightly slower speed help the J roll better in the scissors? Or maneuver inside better during a scissors? Yes. The L's speed in AH doesn't quite do it justice compared to in real life where they only flew agaisnt the same type of planes.

The G out maneuvers both planes yet is slower, maybe just a tad bit too slow in the skies of AH. Great for perkies. Keep it high!

My arguements toward flight characteristics only partain to AH as comparing them toward real life plane models/pilots isn't fair in comparison. I think the J has better overall flight combat abilities to be successful in the AH skies, and sholtz you can look at AH records over the years to prove that point . While the L can handle turning at higher speeds and is faster AH. It really isn't too much of a difference, especially once you lose E in a loop fight, it could be fatal for the slightly faster plane from a defensive stand point. The dive flaps can be useful in the dive which could allow it to get the kill more quickly in a dive. It all depends on how quickly you can actually get the kill without having to lose too much E in the L model (or any plane with more E)

[Wmaker]

The P-38J is not the best perk farmer in the game, the P-38G is far better in generating perks than the J will ever be.  And on top of that, there are far more other planes (like the C202) that are far better in farming perks.  

Even without looking at the exact ENY-values, I can't see how C.202 is a better perk farming plane than P-38G. The difference in armament alone makes P-38G far better perk farmer.

...as in "bang for the buck".

[Triton28]

38G is the best perk farmer IMO mostly because it still has the peanut butter and chocolate combination that is 50's and Hispanos lined up in the center.  The 202 might make you more perks per kill, but you won't kill near as much as you can in the G wagon.   

[save]

Best perk-farmer in the game is the Mosquito fighter, bar none.

For ENY 30 you get 4*20mm Hispanos center mounted, and 4 7.7mm peashooters with almost infinite ammunition, also centre mounted, and internal and external bomb load.
Its also  plane that can challenge many planes in MA in pure dogfighting.

When I fly the A8 (ENY 20) together with Bozon's Mossie, he out climbs me (with internal bombs) and simply fly away from me and easy out-turns me with bombs, have better endurance, have 2 engines to be smoked instead of one, 4 Hispanos instead of 4*151 and 2*13mm (or in buff-killing mode 2*30mm).

The bad things for the Mossie vs  the 190A's is its roll rate, dive speed, shorter WEP, and the Mossie seem to take less hits, and get you PW very easy compared.

[Randy1]

The P-38J is not the best perk farmer in the game, the P-38G is far better in generating perks than the J will ever be.  And on top of that, there are far more other planes (like the C202) that are far better in farming perks.  

I don't understand your comment about the boosted ailerons.  They work on the L in real life as they do in AH, so I'm confused by your comment that they worked in real life but not in AH.  No, trimming out of a high speed dive in the P-38J isn't as effective as using the dive flaps in the P-38L in a high speed dive.  At least with the P-38L in a high speed dive with the dive flaps employed, you still have limited (although sluggish) control, while at the point you need to use trim to pull out of a dive in the P-38J, you do not have effective control of the Lightning.
  


What "simulated dive flap treatment" are you speaking about with the P-38L?  Or the "simulated dampened roll rate of the J"?  Of course there is going to be a difference in handling between an early P-38J model (like the J we have in game) and the P-38L because of the features introduced with the L model (boosted ailerons, dive flaps, etc).

ack-ack

Finally had time to reply fully.

Although the G gets more perks per kill the J has a better chance to get the kill.  The J is the most efficient perk farmer might be a better way to put it.

On boosted ailerons.  A bit more to add to my short previous post.  I suspect the J model uses a damping subroutine that works much like the scaling in the Joystick control.  That damping effect might offer an unexpected benefit in the way of smoother flying and that might be the difference I see.  In AH the higher speed the L can roll at higher speeds has a small benefit but not enough to justify the difference in ENY between the J and L in my opinion.  In Attack mode the difference in ENY difference is well justified.

On the dive flap in the L.  Yes what you say is true Ak-Ak.  My point is that if you reach speeds that the dive flaps come into use, you have put yourself in a poor position both offensively and defenselessly.  I will note in the Attack mode, on a dive bomb-rocket run I actuate the dive flap as a kind of safety net.  I can not say I have pulled out of a dive in the L with dive flaps that I could not pull out the J using up trim.  I do fly with manual trim by the way so up trim is easy for me to apply.  Now that I have posted that, I can see in Combat Trim, the dive flap would be useful.  I think you posted once you use CT.

[FLS]

Going fast enough to need the dive flaps is why they were installed in the first place. Hard to see their use as putting you in a poor position. The dive flaps allow higher speeds which is also where the boosted ailerons make the biggest difference.