Author Topic: Seriously?!!  (Read 2236 times)

Offline 715

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2014, 01:08:32 PM »
I know you have seen at least two MMO's go under in your years.  I've only seen one but it was painful to watch.  I think you were on the Confirmed Kill alpha?  In any event that was the saddest...a game with outstanding potential dying in the studio.

Huh?  I thought Confirmed Kill was Hitech's first go at a combat flight sim and that it became Warbirds (which he sold to a larger company and then left, for some reason, to create Aces High)?

And Warbirds hasn't quite died yet has it?  Plus there is War Thunder and World of Tanks (both of which, I think, operate on an economic model of Free to Play, maybe Pay to Win).

Offline Ratsy

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2014, 11:59:52 AM »
Confirmed Kill was an effort originally funded, produced and developed by Eidos Interactive.  It died in beta when Eidos pulled the funding (saturation of games in the genre).  I'm pretty sure that HTC was developing AH during this time frame.

 :salute

« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 12:05:34 PM by Ratsy »
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Offline 715

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2014, 01:31:35 PM »
Well I think you might be thinking of the EIDOS reboot of Confirmed Kill (they kept ownership of the name I suspect).  I know the original existed as I played it for quite awhile.  Maybe Hitech can give a brief history of his simulator coding and correct me?  Or maybe he doesn't want to bring back painful memories?  ;)  (Instead of partnering with larger companies, which I suspect went south on occasions, he now has his own company and keeps it small.)

Offline kvuo75

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2014, 03:39:06 PM »
confirmed kill was hitech's game.. I played the beta.. around 1995 or so.

he changed the name to warbirds before it launched.


in other words, it was the same game
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 03:40:58 PM by kvuo75 »
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Offline Ratsy

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2014, 04:14:24 PM »
Teetering past the very edge of OFF TOPIC.

Not the same game.  Two Games with the same name, perhaps.

The Eidos effort was made in 1998-99.

I was unaware that Warbirds was ever anything but Warbirds.  You learn something new every day.

 :salute



« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 04:16:05 PM by Ratsy »
George "Ratsy" Preddy
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Operating with the Arabian Knights - callsign AKRaider

Offline TheRapier

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2014, 05:27:51 PM »
BE sorry you got miffed but you are angry about something I didn't say. That is one of the reasons I generally stay out of the BBS, people running around like testosterone laced spitting cobras, looking at someone or something to get mad at. Anyone or anything will do, you just have to take something they said and extrapolate it out to something they didn't say. 

The mega point is, this game and this genre is dying. It doesn't have to and the micro self centeredness of each player has contributed to the problem but its not the only thing. Developers have been behind the curve and not really thinking. They have played the game of playing to the micro self centeredness and thought they were serving the community. The real requirement of the developer is to think about the overall health of the game, not developing niche bits of it.

I have been in game and software development for almost 15 years. This genre got me into it. It has been a death of a thousand cuts to see it slowly waste away. And it wastes away for all the wrong reasons. Not because the game play isn't compelling. The game play can supply something that no MMORPG can, an infinitely variable game world. The variability is made up by the player interactions. Every time you step into the arena, its a different place, even if its a different map. Every fight you have is a different fight. It's where the concentrations are. The single most important piece of that in this kind of game is the MAP SIZE!!! Map size makes or breaks the ability of gamers to interact. When the map size is bigger than the number of players, the game can't hit critical mass. For the developer to lag more than a YEAR and not see this is something wondrous and I'm not saying in a good way. For HUGE maps to be the rule and not the exception implies a certain blindness.

For good or ill, AH is the last Mohican. Unless something else should arise.

In my heart of hearts, it is obvious something needs to change. Part of it lies with HTC to take action. Part of it lies with the player community to get out of "What's in it for me?" or "Waaaaaaaaaa, this affects my favorite exploit!!" and switch gears to evaluating what DOES work. When HTC does something that works it needs to be supported by the players wholeheartedly and not drowned in the noise of "Waaaaaaaaaaaa!" Look at this BBS objectively. How could anyone serve a community so contradictory?!! Every point has an equal and opposite point. That is what physics calls non movement. And that is where we sit.

The initial measurement should be number of player interaction per hour. First your push that up in peak hours and then you expand it from peak. The map is the simplest, easiest way to do that. Then you focus on game play basics. Insure that those work right, reliably, all the time. Only after you have that covered, then add new features. People will tolerate a lot, but they won't tolerate you wasting their leisure time with crappy game play.

The mega point is that the current set up of developer inaction and player apathy/micro self centeredness is a death sentence. Sure as gravity. 
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Offline Zerstorer

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2014, 07:34:27 PM »
Well thought out arguments for smaller maps (even temporary) continue to be brought up and ignored. Your points are all well thought out and will sadly also likely be ignored.


At this point the only compelling reason to keep an account is FSO... which is fun if having its own ups and downs. Pretty sure that will fade soon as well.

Ah well.
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Offline kvuo75

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2014, 12:43:56 AM »
Teetering past the very edge of OFF TOPIC.

Not the same game.  Two Games with the same name, perhaps.

The Eidos effort was made in 1998-99.

I was unaware that Warbirds was ever anything but Warbirds.  You learn something new every day.

 :salute





im reading usenet posts from 1995 about confirmed kill / warbirds beta period, discussion with pyro and hitech.


takes me back.. the whole game was going to hell then too!


https://groups.google.com/d/topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim/GMjW4qaQjPY/discussion



https://groups.google.com/d/topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim/g5kuPALdmHw/discussion


seriously.. these threads are almost 20 years old and its just like today
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 12:52:37 AM by kvuo75 »
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2014, 09:18:50 PM »
It isnt actually dry land. Detailed water has to be on to see it though

No. I have detailed water on. Also you cant spawn PTs to the areas plotted
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2014, 09:19:45 PM »
Is it me, or does picture 2 look more realistic.  :headscratch:
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline bustr

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2014, 04:30:11 PM »
It's funny. Fester's map is brilliant for his efforts using the existing tools and tiles in the terrain editor to make terrain and sky that looks and feels real. Greebo did the same thing. You gave them about a day of ohh and ahh and WTG over that.

Then you got back to micro whizzing over the evils of HiTech and other players not playing some how or some way to bring back the glory days of 2002-2007. Ultimately, as always, grinding down to the heart of the whizz by increments and tiny cuts.

HiTech I am mad at you for not keeping me entertained. And not doing the "something" to force everyone to play like back in the glory days and how I want them to play today. I'm mad at you for not advertising the world to death with AH2, not trolling air shows for new blood, not making the game look like IL2\WT, not, not, not, not doing exactly what "I"  want you to do to make this the supercalifragilisticexpialidocious game of my dreams to keep me from being bored. And by the way, HiTech I'm mad at you because I feel helpless about all of this. And you don't take long moonlit walks with me anymore asking how "I feeeeellllllllll" about the game.........."Waaaaaa, You has abandoned meeeee!!"

But, being guys, macho men, no girly emotions tolerated. You throw bombs in all directions to get attention. Any kind of attention unfortunately.

How many of you are too far gone for the new graphics engine in AH3 to do anything other than PO you that HiTech didn't do it sooner? Fester's and Greebo's last maps are master pieces of what anyone in AH2 could always have done, and their eye candy wasn't enough.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2014, 08:40:20 PM »
I play the game because most of the time I enjoy the game. I just feel it needs more depth.  HTC doesnt have to do anything special to keep me. I have no plans on going anywhere.

BUT AH veterans enjoying the game isnt what brings in new customers.
"WOW" brings in new customers. What causes people to check out a game for the first time? Its "WOW!" AH needs more WOW
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Seriously?!!
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2014, 08:50:07 PM »
OK its a big map but half of it is water that no one ever ever ever will fly over and a lot of the rest is only used by bombers. If u look at the "battle zone" (area over and between Front line bases) u are down to just a few sectors where 90% of all players will be located so it isn't really that hard to find action. I don't see that the map size really matters, there are still just a few front line bases where the action takes place. More people is the solution - not smaller maps. the problem at this side of the pond at least is that no one seems to know about this game, i mean, finding 5000 people out of 7 billion that plays the game on a regular basis should not be impossible.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking