Author Topic: Support Aces High  (Read 9929 times)

Offline Skyyr

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2014, 09:37:22 PM »
The idea that no one likes to play games that are hard anymore reflects the real generation gap problem with AH: it's full of senile old men who are too busy yelling 'get off my lawn!' to see the world around them.

Spot. Freaking. On.
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - 296

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 30-11

KOTH Wins: 6, Egos Broken: 1000+

Mmmmm... tears.

Offline Changeup

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2014, 09:42:41 PM »
Much has been said about the decline of the player base in Aces High.  I think most of us can agree that. while nice and possibly overdue, new graphics aren't going to change anything, at least not more than temporarily.

Each of us can cite factors that have caused people to leave; the twelve hour rule, big maps, bases too easy or too hard to take... or overriding external factors; the economy, the aging of our community...  I tend to believe the decline in population has more to do with external factors than gameplay dynamics.  The reason I believe this is that at one point we had Aces High, Warbirds, Fighter Ace and IL2 all with thriving communities of their own.  Now, for the most part, only Aces High remains as the last game standing and the combined population is still in decline.  Certainly there's something much larger at play here than a simple side switching rule (I use that as an example only).

The following except from an interview with Dave Kaemmer of Papyrus Racing Games has stuck with me through the years (for those who aren't aware Papyrus was once the clear leader in racing simulations):

And now, Papyrus is no more, along with Vivendi Universal components Sierra and Impressions Games. Why? Clearly Vivendi felt it needed to undertake a little general housecleaning. But in the specific case of Papyrus, there was quite likely more to the story. Kaemmer has some strong feelings in this regard. "I think there were a number of factors that led to Papyrus' closure. Chief among them is that interest in simulations, a category somewhat different than most games, hasn't grown at the same rate as interest in games in general. Simulations are more difficult to market, since the fundamental enjoyment you get out of them is learning a difficult skill. People buying a toy--which is how people think of computer "games"-- apparently don't expect or want to master a difficult skill."

"The computer game business is really becoming a toy business, especially with the popularity of console gaming. That's not the right market for a simulation. To revisit the golf analogy, it's like trying to sell real golf clubs at a mini-golf pavilion. Certainly you would sell some, but too many of the people coming through to play mini-golf aren't interested in real golf--it's too difficult and time consuming. That's what's happening to simulations, I think. The game industry is saying, 'Look, people aren't buying very many of these golf clubs--can we make a cheaper bag? Plastic instead of leather? Can you make it easier to play golf? It's too hard, plus people have to walk too far.'"

"The real problem is that we're reaching the wrong customers. If Papyrus were to have dumbed down the experience in order to make a console game, they would have had no competitive advantage. There are a zillion driving "games" out there and many of them look really nice since the console budgets allow for a lot of flash. But none of them are true driving simulators, despite what they say. They don't need to be. They are being sold by the licenses. What Papyrus did that really nobody else did was make true simulations--you can really find out what racing is like with a Papyrus simulation. If you can do well in GPL or NR2003, you know how to drive a car at the limit."


Here's a link to the full article:  http://www.gamespot.com/articles/history-of-papyrus-racing-games/1100-6103365/

If you think of this in the context of the recent onslaught of free to play games that so many cite as low fidelity from a simulation standpoint but with astounding graphics it really starts to make sense.

I don't think a ton of advertising by HT is going to make more than a short term difference either under the current business model.  It will simply bring people in only to leave soon after and wouldn't be a good use of capital for HT.  I do think some type of free to play element would help.  The old H2H arenas fostered some new blood, particularly when the F2P players hands were forced when they were taken away.

What the game really needs is the reuniting and support of it's core customer base.  I don't play much anymore but even when I was struggling financially I still sent in my $15/mo. and still do.  If all our old friends returned we'd once again have a thriving community.  If, on the other hand, we leave because the numbers are low or a rule is changed not to our liking the game is doomed to spiral into oblivion and another great aspect of the computer simulation environment will be lost.

I think you have a great point.  I also believe that the people that I know that have left, left for one or more of three reasons and I have spoken with them and they are not ever coming back. 

1.  Their ideas weren't answered Yes or No with any real discourse.  Some ideas were great, some ok and some terrible.  There is nothing wrong with discussing ideas, no matter how poor they may be.  Customers should be made to feel like what they are:  Customers.  None of us can be BIG customers here.  We all pay the same rate but one has to ask:  are all treated like customers.
2.  Zero discourse on gameplay mechanics. 
3.  Numbers have jacked gameplay on specific maps.  See #2.  No discourse.
3a.  Some just don't want to make time for the game.  Started as kids and now theyre busy.  Too busy. 
3b.  One or two are on their second marriages, lol.  They damn sure aren't gonna fly again.

Some felt shunned, some felt like rebelling and got punished for it (rightfully so in most cases) some felt that others were punished too harshly and they fell on their sword for it.  Before someone blows about how smart or dumb that might be, save your breath.  Its not up to anyone else so no one else's opinion matters, nor will it convince them.  It doesn't matter whether the punishment was viewed as being harsh enough or too harsh.  It only matters what the customers that left think.  Sad truth is:  Every one of them that I talk to still love this game.  That alone is a testament to how 1, 2 and 3 affected them. 

I can't bug them anymore. I've already pushed them enough.  Besides, HTC said this is the natural evolution of this game.  Play hard, play harder, get bored, leave.   
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline Oldman731

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2014, 09:48:46 PM »
61 years old so I'm no kid.  


Sure you are.

Now get off my lawn.

- oldman

Offline Changeup

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2014, 09:50:35 PM »
Isn't it said that the adjustments made at halftime by the better coaches are what win the game? these adjustments seem like those that keep players not attract players, relatively minor by comparison, big to existing players but which one is going to get anyone's attn. outside the game.  

The world of multiplayer gaming is making better halftime adjustments and its grown by leaps and bounds, hasn't HT said he wants to remain a small company, there is a danger alone in that line of thinking

Learning curve bah, if you really like a game you'll do what's necessary to win and I don't mean buying gadgets, I mean putting in the time, everyone wants to win if they like a game.



I had to throw some OU football legendary coaching in here for this:

Barry Switzer's Rules for his coaching staff from the Book, "The Winning Edge"

1.  Coaches NEVER win ballgames.  Ever.  Players make plays, players win ballgames and coaches watch.
1.  NEVER coach caution into my players.  Ever.
2.  Don't ever try to teach any one of my players everything you know.  They can't digest it and you don't have the time if youre doing your job right.

Coaches can make any adjustment they want at halftime but they can never execute those adjustments:  Players do.
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline 230G

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2014, 10:11:11 PM »
   I've been playing off and on since the AW days. Kids, family life and two jobs have hindered me from playing more. Here's my take...

   New terrain! New graphics! Who cares? I'd bet most play for the either the historical aspects or for the challenge. Nice graphics are great but geez...

   Lack of updates. Even though I don't currently have an active account, I check the main page of the website a couple of times a week for updates. It's been almost 3 months. That is absolutely absurd. Come on, throw us a bone before everyone loses interest.

    Like others, I've tried to get young people interested. My oldest grandson showed an initial interest, but it's hard to keep a young 'un interested when you fly and fly and fly looking for a fight. You see a flashing base and go there. Is it a bomber at 25,000 ft. or a fighter at tree top level? I know, I know...the current generation. But if the game doesn't appeal to them in at least some small way, it will die.

   I don't frequent the forums much so forgive me if this idea has already been mentioned. How about some sort of offline AI so new folks can practice before wading in to the arenas? Please don't tell me to DL this map or that scenario. I've tried and it's confusing and pretty much a pain in the ass.

     

   
If you approach from me from my 12:00 you will be unapologetically HO'ed.

Offline Someguy63

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2014, 11:30:08 PM »
Same has been said about my generation. And any before that. Usually BS.



Come visit a few of our schools and you will see. At least that's how it is here.

I'm sure now it is no longer BS.
Anarchy
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Offline glzsqd

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2014, 12:10:31 AM »


I'm sure now it is no longer BS.

Lol yes it is, give it 3 or 4 more years and you'll come around.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2014, 12:17:52 AM »
I had to quit playing AH because I got bitter listening to other finns drinking 18 yo whiskeys or bottles of expensive wine and all I had was cheap market beer. After some time I just couldn't take it.  :bhead
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2014, 12:25:47 AM »
   New terrain! New graphics! Who cares? I'd bet most play for the either the historical aspects or for the challenge. Nice graphics are great but geez...

The graphics issue is HUGE for anyone trying out the game for the first time. The first impression left is what either sparks the interest or not. Lord knows that they're not going to have too much fun the first days being raped by the vets.

I still think AH should have the chance for offline practice missions WB style. That would enable people to try it and practice before subscribing in order to survive more than a minute on MA. I think that a large part of AH success in the beginning was due to the influx of experienced flight sim players from other dying games. That road has been walked, now it should attract noobs.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Someguy63

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2014, 12:33:52 AM »
Lol yes it is, give it 3 or 4 more years and you'll come around.

Either it's just my area or is my generation really not that bad?

If anything I go with my area. :rolleyes:
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Offline glzsqd

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2014, 12:36:23 AM »
Either it's just my area or is my generation really not that bad?

If anything I go with my area. :rolleyes:

Ohh how it was to be young  :cheers:
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Offline Someguy63

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2014, 12:39:00 AM »
Ohh how it was to be young  :cheers:

You are four years older than me. :headscratch:

It's the people I must be around to for me to make those assumptions. :rolleyes:
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Offline Wilbus

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Just got back... kind of...
« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2014, 01:10:02 AM »
Well, I just got back, sort of any way.

Having used only Macintosh for the past 6 or so years I haven't been able to play AH, nor have I really had any interest in it as I've been up to other things. A few weeks ago I decided to build a new PC though so thought I'd get back to AH and at least try it again and of course this thread caught my attention.

Some MIGHT remember me, most won't. I played AH from the first day of the open beta until, well, for a long time, many years and I've put countless hours in it.

I have started it up and flown some offline so far and the thing is is it feels and looks exactly the same as it did 5 or 6 years ago (offline at least). This is in part good and in part bad, of course I like the fact that I remember everything but it also surprised me some that almost nothing has changed, at least not on the surface. We will see once I get online again, it'll be sometime after new years eve.
I did see some new planes (surprisingly few) and some new vehicles but fewer then I expected. I remember when Hitechcreations used to spurt out new things and new updates, that kept the interest sparking. But like I said, we'll see when I get online again.

I will say this how ever, I don't think a declining player base has to do with a too steep learning curve of too much time needed for the game. Of course many people are just looking for some quick action, easy to learn, great looking games many are also looking for something really competative. I'm playing Eve Online for example, that's probably the game with the highest learning curve I've ever seen, and might very well be one of the games in the world which are hardest to master and still there are A LOT of people playing it, if you enter during prime time there may be over 40,000 people online, enter during the slow times and there are still around 10,000 people playing in one way or another and this is a game that really takes years to master most of the time.

What Eve online does right is very many things, one of them, and one that I felt HTC was missing by the time I quit last time, was the lack of updates, not only to the game but to the webpage as well. Here Eve Online is a real inspiration, they release "major" updates almost every month adding many new feutures and other updates. They always keep the player base updated on what is happening, communicating and even asking players questions as to wether "is this somehting you want or how do you want it?"

I think an active communication from the company making the product is more important than anything else, closely followed by rappid updates. They don't need to be major, but they do need to come often when it's a game you pay monthly for. Afterall, paying monthly means you not only pay for the servers but also for an evolving game. Otherwise one might as well spring for a $50 game and be done with it, at least one does't expect many updates part from maybe bug fixes with those games.

Another issue might very well be the competition of really high end flight simulations such as the DCS series but that's just a guess...

Having said all this, AH was one of the first games I downloaded and installed as it's been my favorite game for many years and it still sparks and interest. Wether that interest will be kept alive or not is another question.
Well, just my take on it, so far.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline FLS

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2014, 01:50:19 AM »
Hiya Wilbus

Remember this?   :D


Wilbus's Reply

I did not fly the blue nosed jug
it maneuvers like a slug
a porcupine I'd rather hug
then fly the silver, blue nosed jug

I did not fly that allied ride
I did not could not change my side
those evil boys conspired and lied
I did not fly that allied ride

I would not fly that monstrous bird
never mind what you have heard
I could not to it e'er be lured
I would not fly that monstrous bird

I did not would not fly that craft
Its much too silly,just too daft
your brains they must have shifted aft
to think that I would fly that craft

The Thunderbolt is not my plane
do you think I am insane?
the whole issue is quite inane
the Thunderbolt is not my plane

Offline realgood

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Re: Support Aces High
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2014, 03:08:24 AM »
 I will keep supported this game and will never stop. Been here sent 2008 that's not along time and have not had a lot time in 2 years to enjoy it with the guys I like but knowing I can come home and do it is comfort to me.  Like I have said to the wife and kids and grandkids it my 14.99.                                                          Marry Christmas  everybody and Happy New Years  :salute   :cheers:
Might as well face it we are all addicted to this hehehe but me really I can ouit any time I want to <Proud Member 2nd Squad >"***Alchemists***"