the hoard

[Scotch]

It might be hard to believe, but there was a time when "hordes" left people to finish 1vs1's.
Of course we all paid per hour and were more considerate in general...

I rarely complain about getting ganged. But I will call people out for flying like little girls that need to have their hand held. Interpret that however you want.

[mikev]

Mikev,

I also try and avoid Head Ons especially when there are overwhelming numbers in our favor (disagree.... kill at all costs).
[/quote]

i was referring to the underdogs chilli , i may have been killed most of the time but i believe this is a team type of game  and it sure helps to know someone has your back sometimes

[DREDIOCK]

 lots of complaints on 200 about pilots flying into hoards then complaining about the odds after they get shot down. I just have to say that if you do this its your own fault. their are only a few pilots i know that can even manage to even the odds and even they get shot down.
  if you fly into a out numbered situation , whats everybody suppose to do let you shot us down 1 by 1?  thats crazy. if i see 1 of my team pilot in trouble i will come to their aid and i dont care if i have to ho, cut off , even collide with the other plane ,you are the cartoon enemy trying to kill my teammate, sorry if you dont like it .
  choose your fights wisely , find a better strategy , but if you fly into an outnumbered situation your the blame for what happens nobody else.

Larger problem is the hordes tend to avoid one another opting for the easy capture rather then to actually fight. While the path of least resistance makes perfect sense to Sun Tsu and real world combat. Its counter productive in a game where the idea is to..Well...fight.

What cracks me up is the hordes that take a base either completely or nearly completely undefended with incredible odds in their favor then slap each other on the back as though they accomplished something significant

[mikev]

Larger problem is the hordes tend to avoid one another opting for the easy capture rather then to actually fight. While the path of least resistance makes perfect sense to Sun Tsu and real world combat. Its counter productive in a game where the idea is to..Well...fight.

What cracks me up is the hordes that take a base either completely or nearly completely undefended with incredible odds in their favor then slap each other on the back as though they accomplished something significant

  have to agree with ya dred , its the furball most people i thought like ,  the taking of bases with no defense or very little is part of the reason i started this. the pilots take off  with little chance then complain because they were shot down.
   like i said before there are maybe a dozen pilots i have seen who can even manage this  and i believe you to be 1 of the 12

[TequilaChaser]

ya know, if my memory is serving me correctly, I recall a few times I took up winging with DREDIOCK, and we always had fun... regardless of the odds or the hordes........

we held true covering each other and bringing our scalps home to land, it has been many many years, but DRED was a hell of a wingman  (Pardner), that
I truly enjoyed winging with, gosh that seems like over 10 years ago if I really think bout it...


TC <--- who thinks is too much in the sauce at the moment, heh!

[DREDIOCK]

  have to agree with ya dred , its the furball most people i thought like ,  the taking of bases with no defense or very little is part of the reason i started this. the pilots take off  with little chance then complain because they were shot down.
   like i said before there are maybe a dozen pilots i have seen who can even manage this  and i believe you to be 1 of the 12

I dont mind taking bases. It can be fun.  I dont mind loosing bases so long as I had fun defending and made you pay and work for it.

Thing is if we take or loose a base I'd much rather the base capture be earned. And not essentially  for all intents and purposes,free but the time wasted attacking nothing but a bunch of buildings.  Then its something to back slap about.

IMO There is no better a fun fight to be had in the MA then the titanic and sometimes desperate struggle over a base or sometimes both bases. And there is often something in it for everyone. Fighters, GVers, Air to ground GV killers, Buffs, buff hunters, Buff defenders etc etc. No matter what type of fight your looking for. They can usually be had in these struggles. Having a rough time of it in one thing. An off night or just plain bored or don't feel like doing one thing. Simply switch to something else for a while. On the ground it, like in the air is often not a spawn camp but a war that more closely resembles what a ground war should be. Not a spawn camp but movement. Gaining ground and holding positions long enough for the capture to take place. Or desperately holding a town against attackers just long enough for relief to arrive or the town to start popping.

Those titanic struggles speak to me what the game can be, and should be.

Base captures are fun. Base losses can still be fun. But they are made the most fun not by being free and easy. But by how much you paid for them

[Traveler]

Larger problem is the hordes tend to avoid one another opting for the easy capture rather then to actually fight. While the path of least resistance makes perfect sense to Sun Tsu and real world combat. Its counter productive in a game where the idea is to..Well...fight.

What cracks me up is the hordes that take a base either completely or nearly completely undefended with incredible odds in their favor then slap each other on the back as though they accomplished something significant

I disagree, I haven't seen hordes avoiding each other.  I've seen Knights attempting to capture a Rooks/Bishops base and them responding with what appeared to be  a pretty organized approach.  M3's resupplying the base and town and mustering a horde of their own to counter and in some cases out number the attacking horde.   But from a planning standpoint and organizing a Mission, having that mission arrive at  a base undetected and from first bomb drop to putting troops in the Map room, taking just four or five minutes,  that's a thing of beauty.

Everyone knows when a base if being attacked, it's not secret, every base flashes when aircraft enter the radar ring, every town flashes when a GV gets in range.   The attacking force has done their job, if the defenders chose not to put up a fight whose fault is that?  There are lots of fights out there on any given day.  I'm based on the east coast and that appears to be prime time all the time.  So stop complaining about how people chose to play and just enjoy the game.   It takes two to have a dog fight, if people attacking an airfield show up  and no defenders up to dog fight, who's fault is that?  not the attackers.

[DREDIOCK]

ya know, if my memory is serving me correctly, I recall a few times I took up winging with DREDIOCK, and we always had fun... regardless of the odds or the hordes........

we held true covering each other and bringing our scalps home to land, it has been many many years, but DRED was a hell of a wingman  (Pardner), that
I truly enjoyed winging with, gosh that seems like over 10 years ago if I really think bout it...


TC <--- who thinks is too much in the sauce at the moment, heh!

It probably does. You're a known commodity which are the ones I prefer to wing with either by design or chance. With known commodities you know you are with someone you can trust to work with you. With the unknowns. Well. you just dont know what you are going to get. If you are going to get your 6 cleared or just be used as unwitting bait. Are they going to suddenly up and leave without warning? Are they going to communicate with you something that you may not see or what they are doing or what they need you to do? Are they going to help you to help them? If you put your arse on the line to save them will they do likewise?

With unknowns you just dont know.

Some advice for the new guys. Become known. More importantly, become known as an asset. Someone that can be counted on in a fight.
Dont just fly by that 3 V 1. Dive into the fray to help out even if its not always in your best personal interests or original intentions.
Communicate. Using people as bait is fine but call out what you need someone to do. Help them help you.
And if they tell you to do something in trying to help you. Do it. Learn to trust them and they will learn to trust you.
Communicate your intentions. Learn to set the person you are with up. And he will do likewise.

Examples
Skinny - "Hey Fatso. I'm comming in on that spit on your 6"
Fatso -"Ok thanks. He seems target fixated and I dont think he see's you Im going to take take him up in an immelman/hard  climb sharp left/right whatever"

Your wingman now knows what to expect and what the opponents likely moves are going to be and can act accordingly

Another is the guy helping you  but because of whatever reason, speed, angle, alt people on him whatever may need you to do something to help you

Fatso- Im comming in to help out with that Dora,  take him on a slow turn to the left." (or whatever direction or move he requests)

If possible. Do it. A turn to the left doesnt mean turn right, split S, Immelman or hard climb. It means turn left. Its of no help to either of you if requested to do one thing you do another.

You will in time become amazed at what a couple of people communicating and working as a team can accomplish. It takes trust and communication and most important. Participation.

Become known as an asset and you will find your efforts returned 10 fold

Will it always work in your favor? Nope. sometimes you will die anyway or die for your efforts while the helping the other person survive. And sometimes the person you are with will.

But you will become known and find other people more willing to work with you.

[DREDIOCK]

I disagree, I haven't seen hordes avoiding each other.  

This is a joke...right?

Im sure someone here can provide a map screenshot of exactly this happening.

Depending on the map. Its quite a common occurrence

I am east coast based also. In fact the same state as you.

Hello fellow New Joiseyan

"where the weak are killed and eaten"

[Traveler]

This is a joke...right?

Im sure someone here can provide a map screenshot of exactly this happening.

Depending on the map. Its quite a common occurrence

I am east coast based also. In fact the same state as you.

Hello fellow New Joiseyan

"where the weak are killed and eaten"

No, not a joke.  I base that on 15 years of playing aces high with no breaks.   Screen shots of exactly what happening? empty sky?  I fly Saturday evenings with my squad 113th Lucky Strikes and we always seem to find the fights, hordes and  all, even those flying BarCap over an area of approach or Cap over a base.  Do I see groups attempting to sneak a base, sure do, but if no one ups to defend at the base being attacked or comes to the area to contest the attack, that's not the fault of group doing the attacking and their not the ones avoiding the fight.

[mikev]

[/font]

It probably does. You're a known commodity which are the ones I prefer to wing with either by design or chance. With known commodities you know you are with someone you can trust to work with you. With the unknowns. Well. you just dont know what you are going to get. If you are going to get your 6 cleared or just be used as unwitting bait. Are they going to suddenly up and leave without warning? Are they going to communicate with you something that you may not see or what they are doing or what they need you to do? Are they going to help you to help them? If you put your arse on the line to save them will they do likewise?

With unknowns you just dont know.

Some advice for the new guys. Become known. More importantly, become known as an asset. Someone that can be counted on in a fight.
Dont just fly by that 3 V 1. Dive into the fray to help out even if its not always in your best personal interests or original intentions.
Communicate. Using people as bait is fine but call out what you need someone to do. Help them help you.
And if they tell you to do something in trying to help you. Do it. Learn to trust them and they will learn to trust you.
Communicate your intentions. Learn to set the person you are with up. And he will do likewise.

Examples
Skinny - "Hey Fatso. I'm comming in on that spit on your 6"
Fatso -"Ok thanks. He seems target fixated and I dont think he see's you Im going to take take him up in an immelman/hard  climb sharp left/right whatever"

Your wingman now knows what to expect and what the opponents likely moves are going to be and can act accordingly

Another is the guy helping you  but because of whatever reason, speed, angle, alt people on him whatever may need you to do something to help you

Fatso- Im comming in to help out with that Dora,  take him on a slow turn to the left." (or whatever direction or move he requests)

If possible. Do it. A turn to the left doesnt mean turn right, split S, Immelman or hard climb. It means turn left. Its of no help to either of you if requested to do one thing you do another.

You will in time become amazed at what a couple of people communicating and working as a team can accomplish. It takes trust and communication and most important. Participation.

Become known as an asset and you will find your efforts returned 10 fold

Will it always work in your favor? Nope. sometimes you will die anyway or die for your efforts while the helping the other person survive. And sometimes the person you are with will.

But you will become known and find other people more willing to work with you.

Some advice for the new guys. Become known. More importantly, become known as an asset. Someone that can be counted on in a fight.

I think you just nailed it on the head dred . this is the type of flying i try to do all the time. even though i an a new player . it gets me in trouble alot but i am getting better . as i cut off the 3 v 1 the 1 usually goes bye bye and then i am alone 3 v me. this has happen alot  which is why i fly the spit alot because i can out turn the ponies and jugs. zeeks and others require a bit more radical moves. last night i performed a split s by cutting power at about 1600 feet missing the trees by less then i want to judge. not that it helped alot still got shot down but it was a proxy by dogface.

[The Fugitive]

No, not a joke.  I base that on 15 years of playing aces high with no breaks.   Screen shots of exactly what happening? empty sky?  I fly Saturday evenings with my squad 113th Lucky Strikes and we always seem to find the fights, hordes and  all, even those flying BarCap over an area of approach or Cap over a base.  Do I see groups attempting to sneak a base, sure do, but if no one ups to defend at the base being attacked or comes to the area to contest the attack, that's not the fault of group doing the attacking and their not the ones avoiding the fight.

You my be have trouble "seeing the forest for the trees", or in plain english, you and your squad more often than not are part of the horde on Saturday nights.

The OP stated he would jump in and help someone that needed help, something along the line of "i dont care if i have to ho, cut off , even collide with the other plane ,you are the cartoon enemy trying to kill my teammate, sorry if you dont like it". Do you ask if your teammate needs/wants help? I know I like it if Im asked if I need help. Even vs a couple I like to fight my way out if I think I have a chance.

2nd thing, if your in the horde attacking the base and one of your buddies gets in a fight you jumping in does a few things. Takes a player away from the attack, if your too busy ganging a defender your not helping in the attack really. You also taking away a learning experience for the player your saving. Most players don't practice or train. The only training they get is hands on in the MAINS. By you jumping in your contributing to the lack of skill so many players show. How are they ever going to get better if someone is always bailing them out?

3rd. the guys you jumped in to save, if he has already dropped his bombs or for-filled his roll in the mission, why NOT let him fight it out? He is after all keeping a defender busy.

Hordes will never be good for the game. Like someone posted above, why not just play off-line and capture all the bases you want if you don't want to fight for them. 

[Traveler]

You my be have trouble "seeing the forest for the trees", or in plain english, you and your squad more often than not are part of the horde on Saturday nights.

The OP stated he would jump in and help someone that needed help, something along the line of "i dont care if i have to ho, cut off , even collide with the other plane ,you are the cartoon enemy trying to kill my teammate, sorry if you dont like it". Do you ask if your teammate needs/wants help? I know I like it if Im asked if I need help. Even vs a couple I like to fight my way out if I think I have a chance.

2nd thing, if your in the horde attacking the base and one of your buddies gets in a fight you jumping in does a few things. Takes a player away from the attack, if your too busy ganging a defender your not helping in the attack really. You also taking away a learning experience for the player your saving. Most players don't practice or train. The only training they get is hands on in the MAINS. By you jumping in your contributing to the lack of skill so many players show. How are they ever going to get better if someone is always bailing them out?

3rd. the guys you jumped in to save, if he has already dropped his bombs or for-filled his roll in the mission, why NOT let him fight it out? He is after all keeping a defender busy.

Hordes will never be good for the game. Like someone posted above, why not just play off-line and capture all the bases you want if you don't want to fight for them. 

No, you got it wrong, the 113th announces where we plan to attack, others seem to follow us, if you noticed Saturday the 113th arrived ahead of the horde to take down the hangers.  We can't tell not to attack a base that we are attacking now can we?????????    Not sure if it was your intention to direct the rest of your rant at me, I believe someone else posted about jumping in and HOing and the like, not me.

[Zoney]

Saturday the 113th arrived ahead of the horde to take down the hangers..

I'm not real sure how this promotes fighting, maybe it's just me, but this is pure hoard mentality it seems.

[Scotch]

We're all about that fight, as long as we take out the FH's first.