Author Topic: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect  (Read 1063 times)

Offline Gman

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2015, 06:47:03 PM »
Hah, I enjoyed reading that Traveler.  Back in the days when things made sense.

Offline Busher

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2015, 06:51:48 PM »
My Granddaddy told me once,

If it flies, floats or f**ks.....rent it.

Seriously, if you don't even have a PPL yet, go get it...rent lots of different light planes until you find a type you like. Maybe a Skyhawk will suffice...you might end up wanting a decathalon to do advanced aerobatics.

You gotta fly an awful lot to justify airplane ownership over rentals.
Being male, an accident of birth. Being a man, a matter of age. Being a gentleman, a matter of choice.

Offline Busher

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2015, 06:55:42 PM »
I own a Cirrus, so one of those "real planes" with a parachute. A few things: skip the 162, that plane is an abortion. The LS1 and Czech Sport Cruiser are great choices. That said, there are very real issues so I'll be blunt: you need money, a lot of it. You need enough to at any point in time write a check for $30k.for what reason, any reason. I can shut an an engine tomorrow and I'm out $50k, so there's 1 reason. The numbers on my plane are, let's be frank here: humbling.

Parachute repack: $15k
Engine: $45k
Mx reserve per hour: $180 per hour
Gas: $75 per hour
Hangar: $800 month
Taxes: depends on ur locality
Inspections: $4000
300 hours per year: it's a number

You own a cirrus....and you play this game.....seriously? Why not just go flying?
Being male, an accident of birth. Being a man, a matter of age. Being a gentleman, a matter of choice.

Offline Dimebag

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2015, 09:20:41 PM »
This flying thing is just going to be a hobby and a reason to get out and about to do some travelling. I just see ownership being cheaper than renting In the long run.   Of course, I haven't grenaded a rotax yet either lol

And wolfala must be out flying it now, I know I would be. 

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Offline Dimebag

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2015, 09:24:36 PM »
And heard about this today.  Must sell my challenger before plane purchase anyway but I'll hold out till this bill passes because lsa market should fall because of it.   


http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/February/26/Medical-reform-legislation-introduced-in-House-and-Senate?CMP=ADV%3A1
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Offline Grayeagle

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2015, 03:49:06 AM »
Dimebag .. dood .. I can offer a few insights that may be helpful.

Go out to your local FBO, take a demo ride in a plane you fit into ..size *does* matter :)
Demo rides are not much and ask the instructor if you can take the controls once airborne
and/or follow through during takeoff and landing.

All the sim-time in the world wont mean anything if flying just isn't something you can do.
Some people just plain wig out, inner ear imbalance, fear, or completely inop once the wheels leave the tarmac.

Then there's people like most of us .. lot of AH/AW time, strap on a real airplane, and just have a frikkin blast.
The time you have spent in game has already taught you more than most.
You have the sight-picture of what a good approach looks like, how an aircraft controls 'work' more or less,
..what a stall is ..etc. It's a huge leg up in learning a real plane and how to fly it.

Your instructor time will be reduced significantly because of the above.
ie: My first hour in the air we blew through power on stalls, power off stalls, turns around a point, pattern entry, and I landed the plane.
National average to solo when I earned my license was 76 hours.
I solo'd after 7 hours of dual instruction.

Just Do It.
-grin-
It's too much fun not to do.
A wise man once told me that flying will take all of your disposable income, period.
I cannot think of a better way to use disposable income.
Not one.

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'The better I shoot ..the less I have to manuever'
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2015, 06:24:51 AM »
This flying thing is just going to be a hobby and a reason to get out and about to do some travelling. I just see ownership being cheaper than renting In the long run.   Of course, I haven't grenaded a rotax yet either lol

And wolfala must be out flying it now, I know I would be.

Sounds to me like you had already made up your mind, I'm wondering now why you even started the thread if you were not interested in listing to the advise of more experienced flyers that have already been down the road.    Again, if you buy a training aircraft to learn in you had better make sure that your insurance company allows you to use it for flight instruction. insists on seeing the declaration page don't take the agents word on it.   Your going to make mistakes, make bad landings, make hard landings, you own it, you bang it, all the repairs come out of your pocket.  I've seen lots of aircraft owners do major damage to their aircraft and turn it into a very expensive paper weight.  And remember, you can't determine if the damage is minor or major or none at all, you need an A&E to inspect it and sign off on it.  Every time you have a hard  landing, hope you develop a close personal relationship with your A&E.  A&E's are on staff at most FBO's and when an instructor states on the gig sheet hard landing, the A&E does a check out. That's how it works at the FBO I work at.  But your never going to have a hard landing right, more than one aircraft owner has clipped a wing tip moving an aircraft in a hanger, but that will never happen to you.  CFI's get more per hour to fly in student owned aircraft to cover the extra insurance they have to carry.  The majority of pilot dreamers only fly as a hobby,  Piper and Cessna continue to sell the myth that these aircraft can be used for transportation.  Not if you need to get back to work on Monday morning.  Weather determines if they can be used for transportation.  And if you think landing fees are high, wait until you get weathered in and want or need to put your dream machine in a hanger at a far off field for two or three days.   Plan to sleep in the plane because you won't be able to afford their hanger fee and the rental car and hotel at the same time.   If you are using the training aircraft to travel, be sure to include the cost of a car rental at the other end, or all you will see is the airport and if you have a girl friend or wife along, they want to see the sights from the ground, stay in the hotel and have a clean car to use.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 06:39:27 AM by Traveler »
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2015, 06:47:19 AM »
Dimebag .. dood .. I can offer a few insights that may be helpful.

Go out to your local FBO, take a demo ride in a plane you fit into ..size *does* matter :)
Demo rides are not much and ask the instructor if you can take the controls once airborne
and/or follow through during takeoff and landing.

All the sim-time in the world wont mean anything if flying just isn't something you can do.
Some people just plain wig out, inner ear imbalance, fear, or completely inop once the wheels leave the tarmac.

Then there's people like most of us .. lot of AH/AW time, strap on a real airplane, and just have a frikkin blast.
The time you have spent in game has already taught you more than most.
You have the sight-picture of what a good approach looks like, how an aircraft controls 'work' more or less,
..what a stall is ..etc. It's a huge leg up in learning a real plane and how to fly it.

Your instructor time will be reduced significantly because of the above.
ie: My first hour in the air we blew through power on stalls, power off stalls, turns around a point, pattern entry, and I landed the plane.
National average to solo when I earned my license was 76 hours.
I solo'd after 7 hours of dual instruction.

-GE aka Frank
Stop with the miss information, the national average to get the PPL is 76 hours, not solo and most students solo between 6 and 12 hours as an average.
I've been an active CFI for over 35 years.
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Online icepac

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2015, 07:41:22 AM »
Got my private at mininum hours in 4.5 weeks.

The amount of time and cash savings doing it this way is pretty big but your life has to be such that you can devote that kind of "time percentage".
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 07:42:53 AM by icepac »

Offline Dimebag

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2015, 11:31:48 AM »
Yes I had my mind made up based on what I thought to be the facts

The first plane I looked at was a 162 (before I realized they aren't the plane for me).  It was 75k. I priced insurance on it based off me having zero experience.  I don't recall if I told the agent if I planned on training in it, but he priced me 1500 a year.  That's zero deductible for in motion or on ground incidents.  That would cover a hard landing or a hangar hit, right??

I know I can't fly a lsa plane in sub-par weather, but I can in a rv7... I'm talking cloudy or rainy days, not a hurricane. 

This is why I'm posting here, to learn all I can

« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 11:40:07 AM by Dimebag »
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2015, 03:52:10 PM »
Yes I had my mind made up based on what I thought to be the facts

The first plane I looked at was a 162 (before I realized they aren't the plane for me).  It was 75k. I priced insurance on it based off me having zero experience.  I don't recall if I told the agent if I planned on training in it, but he priced me 1500 a year.  That's zero deductible for in motion or on ground incidents.  That would cover a hard landing or a hangar hit, right??nts

I know I can't fly a lsa plane in sub-par weather, but I can in a rv7... I'm talking cloudy or rainy days, not a hurricane. 

This is why I'm posting here, to learn all I can

I think you should tell the agent that you plan to do your training in the aircraft for your PPL, so your not going for the sport you plan to get an instrument rating, let the agent know that as well.  Is the Airfield manager that is renting you the hanger for 100 a month, is that hanger insured, or is there an additional expense.  are you renting an entire hanger and you are the only one in the hanger or is it a shared space?   What part of the country, what is the weather like?  Boston area, has several hanger caved in due to snow, lots of damaged to aircraft parked inside. Also define on ground  incidents,  is that your word, or an FAA incident or insurance incident.   If someone breaks into your hanger and steals all your radios or nav equipment, is that covered.  If the roof falls in on your dream machine is that covered?  Or will your insurance company point you to the field operator.  A lot of people in the Boston area are finding out the hard way that they have no coverage or that it was an additional rider that they didn't get.
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Offline Toad

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2015, 04:08:58 PM »
I know I can't fly a lsa plane in sub-par weather, but I can in a rv7... I'm talking cloudy or rainy days, not a hurricane. 

Remember when you were a kid playing outfield in Little League? It was hot and the other team couldn't hit. So you got bored and looked away and thought about ice cream after the game. And THEN…RIGHT EXACTLY THEN….some kid whacks one right out there at you and because you're not paying attention the ball goes right on by to the fence?

Well….that's the way a few clouds or a splash of rain turn into deep toejame when you don't have your instrument rating.

Be careful out there.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Oldman731

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2015, 05:20:38 PM »
Well….that's the way a few clouds or a splash of rain turn into deep toejame when you don't have your instrument rating.


Even with an instrument rating, I often do not plan to fly myself if I truly Have To Be There at a particular time.  There have been a number of occasions when ice, high winds or thunderstorms just made it impractical to fly.

But I don't know how I managed to get anywhere without an instrument rating!

- oldman

Offline Golfer

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2015, 08:13:02 PM »

Even with an instrument rating, I often do not plan to fly myself if I truly Have To Be There at a particular time.  There have been a number of occasions when ice, high winds or thunderstorms just made it impractical to fly.

But I don't know how I managed to get anywhere without an instrument rating!

- oldman


I've been doing exceptionally well as of late taking passengers to airports they didn't want to go to for weather and operational reasons.  Doesn't matter if you're instrument rated or not when some days you just aren't getting in.

In one case the airport iced over and the Mu values went through the floor enroute.  Another the weather dropped and resulted in staying in Denver vs continuing into ski country. Last week I couldn't get into Telluride and had to go to Montrose while the Pax were real ultra melons about it too.

In 4 attempts in to Sun Valley I've only seen clouds and wound up in Twin Falls. I feel that it's incorrectly named based on that experience.

Oh and Presidents Day one engine wouldn't start while short of the runway and I got an earful of "WHY ARE YOU LETTING THOSE OTHER AIRPLANES GO AHEAD OF US!!" While we waited for ground to make a hole for us to go back to the FBO in Teterboro.

Time to spare, go by air.  Heck I don't even fly the Bonanza at night or if the wx isn't at least close to VFR.  I want to see the mountain I'm crashing on when the engine quits is my idea on that I suppose.

Offline Groth

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Re: Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2015, 08:44:05 PM »
 Nice stuff, Mr Puma.
 Did you ever get stick time in F86 or F88?
                                                      JGroth