A-320 crash

[Zimme83]

What u are suggesting is that a pilot should be grounded for life if such a thing happen. Im pretty sure a pilot will be taken out of service temoparly if he have lost his family. But ground him for life? No

[MrRiplEy[H]]

What u are suggesting is that a pilot should be grounded for life if such a thing happen. Im pretty sure a pilot will be taken out of service temoparly if he have lost his family. But ground him for life? No

Minimum grounded until he passes psych tests with flying colors. Mental patients like the Germanwings pilot should not fly, period. It's two different thing to have a born tendency for mental issues and getting treated for it vs having temporary stress due to loss in family.

That being said even if the pilot was the most straight headed individual ever and his family got just prior to flight wiped by a 18-wheeler - I wouldn't want to fly in his plane.

[Zimme83]

No he wouldnt have flying, noone question that. But your statement was that anyone that has any contact with a shrink should be banned from flying forever.

[Serenity]

Ripley, I don't think you have a very firm grasp of life in aviation. There are GOING to be life stresses for everyone, but with the insane amount of additional load put on pilots by work, you're going to see higher than normal incidences of stress casualties. You want to regulate anyone dealing with any kind of issue right out of the cockpit? We tried that in the military. Accidents were high, and suicides weren't unusual. You want to REDUCE mental-health related issues? Encourage self reporting by understanding what is a safe level to fly, and not punishing those that seek help.

Here is how YOUR theory works:

Say I take a dive on my last 3 flights, I'm stressed, and I'm losing my edge because I'm already worked up before I even get into the cockpit. I go talk to a counselor to try to find ways to calm down and get back to peak performance. Well, now that I'm seeing a counselor, by your logic, I'm immediately grounded from flying, so I'm losing hours and practice, getting farther behind the curve. What's more, I don't know if I even have a job anymore, because now I have ANOTHER test, this psych evaluation, that I'm worried about, pushing my stress levels even higher. So what am I gonna do? NOT go talk to someone to begin with and try to gut it out. THAT is how you cause casualties.

What we do right now WORKS. If you have an issue, go talk to someone. Between you and the counselor you can evaluate if you're still safe to fly, and if you are, great. If not, get a down watermelon and take some time. The whole time, NO ONE reports on what you're getting help for. Your down-chit is medical, NOT mental health, so you CAN go get help whenever you need it, without having to worry about losing you're entire career.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

No he wouldnt have flying, noone question that. But your statement was that anyone that has any contact with a shrink should be banned from flying forever.

For a mental problem that's not natural stress related, yes, no-fly zone right there. At least on commercial passenger planes.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Say I take a dive on my last 3 flights, I'm stressed, and I'm losing my edge because I'm already worked up before I even get into the cockpit. I go talk to a counselor to try to find ways to calm down and get back to peak performance. Well, now that I'm seeing a counselor, by your logic, I'm immediately grounded from flying, so I'm losing hours and practice, getting farther behind the curve. What's more, I don't know if I even have a job anymore, because now I have ANOTHER test, this psych evaluation, that I'm worried about, pushing my stress levels even higher. So what am I gonna do? NOT go talk to someone to begin with and try to gut it out. THAT is how you cause casualties.

If you're mentally messed enough to not pass your daily work routine without a psych council in my book you're not fit for the job. Simple as that.

[pembquist]

I know it's pointless but I have to say that it might seem like a simple policy but it doesn't work.

[Nathan60]

If you're mentally messed enough to not pass your daily work routine without a psych council in my book you're not fit for the job. Simple as that.

I think Ripley is lumping anyone that talks to anyone about stress in with psychopaths and the like. You should totally internalize everything so one day it boils over. He's neglecting to consider that most people go through tough times and its actually healthy to talk about thing rather than hold them in because your worried about losing work with would be yet another stressor. Ripley is a prime example of someone that is going to crack when things get hard.

[guncrasher]

That's a great idea Sys. I know that the Air Traffic Controllers union, NATCA, offers insurance to its members that covers a portion or your salary (75% tax free I believe as the Federal tax laws exempt disability payments) if the controller loses his medical for any reason other than self induced. I don't know all the details, I retired a few years back and tossed all that stuff, but if the airlines had something like that available it would surely help.

On the other hand it wouldn't help the person who's mind was made up to do something like this without seeking the help that was available to him/her.

Unfortunately we live in a world where you just cant legislate all tragedy away.

joker is not just disability payments but more like insurance payments.  life insurance, disability insurance, stuff like that.


semp

[guncrasher]

For a mental problem that's not natural stress related, yes, no-fly zone right there. At least on commercial passenger planes.

I agree with ripley but only because I know first hand what it feels to take anti-depressants.  not sure if ripley ever taken some or had first hand experience with them.

although anti-depressants do help 99% of the people there's a few people like me when it doesnt help.  to me taking anti-depressants causes a constant thought of suicide, trust me, i am not suicidal and the only time I have ever tried to hurt myself is when I was using them.  I went to seek help because of lots of things that I am not gonna talk about here.  but the FAA is right about this.  if you get on anti-depressants, more than likely they will help you and a few months later you'll hopefully come out ok, or at least it helps you cope with your problem and that is a good thing.

you should always seek help instead of listening to really dumb threads like this.  but at the same time, should really question what you take and what it is supposed to do for you and if it doesnt then go back to your doctor and explain if it doesnt work.  if it does work, then it is awesome, by all means no shame in keep taking them for as long as you need.

in the usa we have, I dont know about a zillion pilots flying and a small percentage of them do have, and I hate to call it mental problems as they most likely arent.  but some pilots do need help and out of those who do some will feel like me.  trust me when they say "thoughts of suicide" as a side effect doesnt even cover it, it's more like an obsession where sometimes it takes most of your time thinking about it.

FAA does understand why people on anti-depressants shouldnt pilot an airplane.  it's not the majority of people that it helps that scares them it's the few guys who will feel something like I feel that does.

knowing what I know about myself, I would really feel scared to fly with somebody who takes them.  on the other hand it also scares me to fly knowing there's people who need help and cant get any.  in other words some people are gonna get screwed one way or another.  dont know what is the answer is, just saying what I know from first hand experience.

my 20 pesos.


semp

[Serenity]

If you're mentally messed enough to not pass your daily work routine without a psych council in my book you're not fit for the job. Simple as that.

Ripley, you're talking out of your rear at this point.

[Zimme83]

I agree with ripley but only because I know first hand what it feels to take anti-depressants.  not sure if ripley ever taken some or had first hand experience with them.

although anti-depressants do help 99% of the people there's a few people like me when it doesnt help.  to me taking anti-depressants causes a constant thought of suicide, trust me, i am not suicidal and the only time I have ever tried to hurt myself is when I was using them.  I went to seek help because of lots of things that I am not gonna talk about here.  but the FAA is right about this.  if you get on anti-depressants, more than likely they will help you and a few months later you'll hopefully come out ok, or at least it helps you cope with your problem and that is a good thing.

you should always seek help instead of listening to really dumb threads like this.  but at the same time, should really question what you take and what it is supposed to do for you and if it doesnt then go back to your doctor and explain if it doesnt work.  if it does work, then it is awesome, by all means no shame in keep taking them for as long as you need.

in the usa we have, I dont know about a zillion pilots flying and a small percentage of them do have, and I hate to call it mental problems as they most likely arent.  but some pilots do need help and out of those who do some will feel like me.  trust me when they say "thoughts of suicide" as a side effect doesnt even cover it, it's more like an obsession where sometimes it takes most of your time thinking about it.

FAA does understand why people on anti-depressants shouldnt pilot an airplane.  it's not the majority of people that it helps that scares them it's the few guys who will feel something like I feel that does.

knowing what I know about myself, I would really feel scared to fly with somebody who takes them.  on the other hand it also scares me to fly knowing there's people who need help and cant get any.  in other words some people are gonna get screwed one way or another.  dont know what is the answer is, just saying what I know from first hand experience.

my 20 pesos.


semp

There are already a lot of cases were a pilot can be grounded for medical reasons, but we dont want a system were pilots hide there illness because they are afraid of loosing their job. If u have a problem u deal with it and if needed stay on ground for a while but u should be able to get a clearence to fly again once the problem is solved. Banning people for life would only lead to more pilots with issues that keep them secret until they snap.

[Nathan60]

Ialso found a report that stated 1 in10 Americans take antidepressants. That is ALOT of people pretty good chance there are a fair amount of pilots in these figures

[Traveler]

Bottom line seems that in the US airspace system, under the rules that existed prior to this event, the two person rule on the flight deck at all  times seems to work.  As for how to treat people with depression watch out for the slippery slope.  Any laws that are enacted today will be around for a very long time.  Do you want anyone able to determine through absolute power what you will do or won't do for a living in the distant future?  Who is to determine what that persons mental reasoning is? 

I think through a very simple change to the locking system for the cockpit door a means can be developed that would allow a crew member a procedure to override the lock out entry code, to ensure safety of the flight crew, a procedure to require  duel entry code from within the cockpit requiring two people to each set their own toggle switch to lockout the flight deck door entry code.  One lock out toggle switch to the pilots far left and one lock out toggle switch to the copilots far right.  Currently there is only one lock out toggle switch located in the center between the two pilots.   

Depression happens to many of us at one time or another, when my wife passed away I stopped instructing, I was depressed, not crazy , I knew I  would not be doing a very good job trying to teach someone how to fly and so I transitioned my students over to two other flight instructors, I stopped instructing for over a year, when I felt ready to start again and to be sure I got and passed a First Class Medical, and requested a check ride with the FAA.  I passed.  I think most people do the right thing and we need to be very careful how much power we allow any government to exercise over us. 

[guncrasher]

(Image removed from quote.)
Ialso found a report that stated 1 in10 Americans take antidepressants. That is ALOT of people pretty good chance there are a fair amount of pilots in these figures

I dont think it's 1 in 10,  perhaps 1 in 10 in a lifetime.  I know a lot of people, probably a couple of hundred and only a couple are taking them.


semp