2 sided war arena

[Arlo]

Let md guess.   He is NOT talking about me.

I will take stalkers for fifty, Alex.

I'm 'stalking' you about as much as Gibbs 'stalks' Dinozzo.



(Meaning, you're in my space and being an arse. That doesn't make you special as much as it makes you 'special.')

 

[Arlo]

Allow me a general word on this matter.

Well apart from the fact that I'm here for battles, not duels.... Things don't work like this, unfortunately.
I can control only my actions, and when the DA is empty (which it always is during off hours) it wont help when I go there. The other 10-30 active players won't follow me. Been there, done that in different constellations over the years in AH.

Any 'solution' that doesn't accept the realities of human nature and just ask for a major change of behaviour of the population as a whole does not work.
That's what you got gameplay mechanisms and rules for (just like ENY, perks, or killshooter). "We" can't to the work of the game designer.




As far as actual proposals go:

- Change the HQ (has been commented on by HT in another thread)

- Take the large maps out of rotation until the numbers allow for them again
(They had been introduced at a much higher population which was very much increasing at those times. And remember how they were taken out of the game after the big arena split, only to be returned for Titanic Tuesdays exclusively?)

- Reduce the sideswitch time limit. Doesn't have to be as low as one hour, even something like four might help.

Snailster ... every change (of that nature) made has been at the 'request' of players. I remember players becoming rather petulant about the graphics (a long and difficult change to the game now painstakingly in the works). Now it's everything but? There was a time when plenty of players managed to have fun with every one of the changes you recommend not being needed. I'm not convinced they are needed now. Having said that, when players REFUSE to have fun in a game that's been fun for years and the reasons they give for not having fun entail the way the game was designed (and has been, for years) - how can I NOT come to the conclusion that it's the players who've chanced and not the game?

Low numbers makes the game not fun.

Obvious answer - higher numbers.

[Lusche]

There was a time when plenty of players managed to have fun with every one of the changes you recommend not being needed. I'm not convinced they are needed now.

"Plenty of players"  is the key phrase. We don't have plenty of players anymore, but we still have some gameplay mechanics in place that were introduced for exactly that: Plenty of players.
Most notably large maps. They had been put in with hundreds of players in mind.
Even at Euro primetime we are now lucky to cross 100 players at time, with absolute daytime lows going down to 20-30 instead of 80-100. The conditions are just different.

And while wishing (and hoping) for higher numbers in the future is fine, the situation that has to be coped with is happening now.
And sitting on a huge map for a week, looking at maybe a single enemy dot here & there, with maybe one(!) battle ont he whole map (unfortunately 'over there')... that's a harsh reality many of us find harder to accept every day.
(For the record, I have noticed Euro prime numbers taking another hit in the past few weeks, but I have to wait until tour's end before I can say it's another local or a more global effect)

[Arlo]

I have a great deal of respect for you, Lusche. And I enjoy reading your posts and think you provide a mature and positive aspect to any conversation. Is it possible that HTC, working valiantly on AHIII (with fewer resources than many in the community realize) is going to devote all new changes to the new version (with there being a chance that the graphics that so many asked for at one time will increase numbers)? With those new numbers, shouldn't the mechanics that are in place be just as adequate as before?

I wouldn't demand my car be fitted with snow tires because I'm driving through Vermont on my way to a paint shop in New Mexico. (Yes, that's the sillt kind of correlations I've had to deal with for years on this forum ).

[Lusche]

I have a great deal of respect for you, Lusche. And I enjoy reading your posts and think you provide a mature and positive aspect to any conversation. Is it possible that HTC, working valiantly on AHIII (with fewer resources than many in the community realize) is going to devote all new changes to the new version (with there being a chance that the graphics that so many asked for at one time will increase numbers)? With those new numbers, shouldn't the mechanics that are in place be just as adequate as before?

Well, some adjustments don't require a great deal of time, for example taking out the large maps (a lot of other changes I have seen asked for do, like for example proposals that require modifying the maps).
Second, I have to admit that I'm growing impatient. I'm waiting for this new version for 1.5 years now, since they messed up (yes, I mean it exactly this way ) the strats.
Ever since this time the problems are getting larger and the new version is still a long way out (being an almost herculean task with the limited manpower that's left at HTC).

I'm afraid that the issues resulting from low numbers and large maps/HQ/time will may further contribute to a lot of palyers not logging in during non-primetime anymore. I'm very much on the verge of cancelling my account for good (not a "threat", I'm not that naive, just a clarification), with some the main reasons why I'm still here being rather pitiful and embarrassing 


And third, I'm not that optimistic about a magic and substantial enduring increase in numbers by the new version at all - but that's a different topic (and one full of crystal balls to boot )

[The Fugitive]

Well truth is surely subjective. Does 'truth' require a defensive stance?

1. The DA still exists.

The old "go to the DA" answer. Well, sorry, DA is a different animal, different rules, different actions, pretty much a different game. It's not the game I'm here to play.

2. How players choose to play or not play with the toys provided has never been HT's fault (if you feel that statement is wrong then you need to provide more than 'more are logging off and never logging back on' and how the 'differences in the game design' are truly at fault and not just perceived by you to be.)

Which is the biggest issue at the moment. Players are choosing to grief other players for no other reason than to piss them off and log out. If there were 500 players in the arena this wouldn't be happening as the coverage of the play area would be sufficient to spot more and more of them or just plain occupy those that are looking for something to do to irritate others.

3. Again, if all you can do is whine-post without making truly productive suggestions (realizing that many of those suggestions may be things the players can do and really doesn't involve a 'broken game') then of course you aren't going to be taken seriously by players who don't share in a personality of self-persecution.

The suggestions are all in HTC's court. As the few players we have left can't force/govern those few that only wish to grief other play, it's up to HTC to make the changes that will limit their ability to grief whole teams. HTC is busy making sweeping changes to the graphics model..... which is why you don't hear people whine about the graphics btw, they know it's coming. There may be fixes for the HQ issue as well as tweaks in game play mechanics in the new version but HTC is, as always, very tight with their information about releases. On top of that is the timing. There are these issues now causing players to leave.... we don't need HTC info, you can see it for your self in the number of players in the arenas. If the new version isn't coming out for another 6 months how many will be here to see it? Will there be enough to help regenerate population?

There is a number that is needed to generate good game play..... ask the Euro players, they see it much more often than the US players. Even so, I sit here wondering if I should bother signing in until later tonight. I know we have the Fester map up and the numbers (109 players total) were crappy a few hours ago for such a big map and a few rooks were planning to hit HQ again just so they can kill goons when they resupply. 

HTC knows there plan. They know about when they may be releasing the new version. If it isn't soon they should seriously consider making a few changes now to try and help keep the players they have UNTIL the release does come out. Getting rid of the large maps for now I'm sure is an easy thing to do and will help concentrate the fights on ALL times of the day. Hitech said that making changes for HQ is harder than most think, fine but is there another way? Maybe turning off the HQ side of the strat system all together? It solves an issue right now, and can be tweaked/adjusted and added back in with the new version.

Players don't complain about the graphics as much because they know a change is coming. If HTC makes other changes to solve or hold off other major issue that players are complaining about it will show the players that something is being done and again cut back on the whines/complaints and maybe refocus players on to finding the fun in the game again instead of looking for another game that is fun.

[Vraciu]

Well said, Lusche and Fugitive.

The game/management/ownership needs to respond to the issues raised or it will continue losing players, which is something nobody wants. 

I ran out of patience with the dar griefing.  It is a royal pita.

[Arlo]

which is something nobody wants.

I'll take irony for 400, Alex.

[bustr]

If changing the HQ settings can be done one map at a time by hand. Can the back end be effected by a script rather than needing Skuzzy to open a GUI and change numbers with each map change? We automate everything else in the Back End computing industry to keep fingers out of admin GUIs and let log events notify us if it goes wrong.

No administrator likes being tied down to an unspecified reoccurring event. That in effect is him enslaved sticking his finger in a hole to stop a reoccurring flood when he cannot predict it for a system promised to be up 24x7x365. So personally, I don't want anyone's life screwed by that kind of nonsense. That is so 1990's job security BS for 20 sumptin Jr. admins.

[FESS67]

Well truth is surely subjective. Does 'truth' require a defensive stance?

1. The DA still exists.

2. How players choose to play or not play with the toys provided has never been HT's fault (if you feel that statement is wrong then you need to provide more than 'more are logging off and never logging back on' and how the 'differences in the game design' are truly at fault and not just perceived by you to be.)

3. Again, if all you can do is whine-post without making truly productive suggestions (realizing that many of those suggestions may be things the players can do and really doesn't involve a 'broken game') then of course you aren't going to be taken seriously by players who don't share in a personality of self-persecution.

1.  True it exists.  There is no one in it but you are correct, it is there.

2.  Agreed it is not HTCs fault.  It is however within the power of HTC to make changes to discourage behaviours or play styles that hurt the larger community.

3.  I think you are fully aware that there are many threads that are filled with productive suggestions. I have not seen much come from those threads.  I reserve the right to whine now and again and the fact that you, or others, may not take me seriously does not mean the issue I am whining about does not exist.

[JVboob]

3 letters AvA  Lets populate that someB some time! like i dunno one day a week were everyone crowds in the AvA!!!!!! the terrains and fields are awesome theres rolling plane sets its like a mini FSO with out orders and 798437459834590823670 lives!!!

[captain1ma]

Monday night, May 18, 2015, in the AVA, we're doing "sheep in the wolfs den". B17s and B24's with escorts vs 109's and 190's. both sides airspawn.

only 2 sides so you'll have to pick one side or the other. you'll be able to readily switch if you like.

2 hour 2 sided "war"..... check it out: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,372207.0.html

[Arlo]

Yay. 

[bustr]

A few years back Waystin was an AvA CM. On Thursday nights he would guarantee a force of piggies flying on the side with the CRAP RIDES. I would show up because Waystin asked me to. POTW is very loyal to requests from Waystin.

There would be maybe an hour with numbers on both sides along with everyone playing nice. Even with being in a crap ride against superior rides, piggies being vets, made the other side earn each kill the hard way. Eventually HOing,  gang banging, and waiting over the field for easy picks would take over. It stopped being worth the trouble for that Thursday night when MA S.O.P. took over, along with most people flying the none crap rides for easy kills.

The obvious things about those Thursdays was that players just dropping in for a look almost always flew the good ride side for the easy kills. Or everybody else migrated there eventually. And just as often the only extra players on the crap ride side were veteran players who like that challenge, which was few if any. Or other CM's to raise the crap ride sides numbers slightly. 12 years ago when the AvA was the CT, this was how that arena operated, and every year right up to 2015 today. The majority of AH players do not want to loose by flying a crap ride if they have a choice not to.

Before anyone becomes stupid and says Hitech has to impose side balancing from the login. Have a conversation with him specifically to why he chose not to all of these years. If he will not have that conversation, then imposed side balancing is off the table for this discussion.

So maybe two sides with all the rides available like the three side MA now might work if Hitech has evolved his opinion about such things. But, two sides with country specific rides only, and no function to force you to the low numbers side at login and keep you there for the session. Aces High will turn into a kiddy weeni bopper game with everyone flying on the good ride side.

And a forced choice model at login, there are about a dozen who will be the last players in the game wondering what went wrong with their idea. These brain storming posts are open letters to Hitech trying to show him how smart and evolved you are about this subject because he may be too close to it after all of these years. The double edged sword, you are also telling him how dumb you think he is because the his problems are so obvious to yourselves.

[captain1ma]

what about a 2 sided arena, with each side getting their respective planes? how about us/England/CA vs Germany/Italy? and all planes( for those countries) are available?

we could actually test this out in the AVA.