Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39

[palef]

Since u apparently didnt read i quote myself:
I did nont said more than if the claims are true about the aerodynamics etc is true its worrying, i even said that software problem can be sorted out.

Errrrr, whut?

[PR3D4TOR]

See Rule #4

[Zimme83]

Im at work...

[Zimme83]

See Rule #4

[Zimme83]

See Rule #4

[PR3D4TOR]

See Rule #4

[Zimme83]

It might be ignorant to claim its the worst/best fighter ever but discussion issues brought up by media etc is not. Even if we dont have first hand information about performance we do have the reports about cost issues, delays, developmnet problem etc and its not ignorant to discuss them.

Im a reg nurse with enough heavy drugs in my possesion to keep the patients from bothering me during my night shift...

[PR3D4TOR]

  Remind me never to get sick in Sweden.


I don't know how old you are Zimme, but I was around when the F-16 was the new thing everybody loved or hated. It was the same thing in the media about cost overruns and performance issues. Being small and cheap(ish) it was a radical departure from earlier USAF fighters and a lot of people thought it would be an abysmal failure. And early on they were dropping like flies from all sorts of engine and electrical issues. I think there were something like 20 accidents in 1981 alone. But in the end the F-16 turned out ok. So far only one F-35 has gone up in smoke and that seems like progress to me. But like I said, I'm ignorant, so don't quote me on that.

[Zimme83]

I know how it works, Gripen saw the same debate.
The difference now is that u guys have put all your eggs in the same basket, F-16 was intended as a day time fighter from the very beginning. F-35 is intended to replace pretty much everything from Hornets to Warthogs and Harriers. If the F-35 are unable to fulfill all these rolls it can have serious impact on the US military capacity. The teen fighters are getting older and older and the F-35 dont have too much time left before it have to start replacing the older airframes.

And there are a lot of other countries involved, countries that are less resistant to increased cost than the US. To European countries there are alternatives like EF, Gripen and Rafale. If the cost for F-35 goes too high there are a risk that European customers will choose another aircraft and leave US taxpayers with an even higher burden.

[PR3D4TOR]

There's always a risk, but if you are not willing to risk the unusual, you will have to settle for the ordinary, and that just won't do. How many alternatives have Sweden developed to the Gripen? Same thing. The Gripen was an enormous risk and impressive achievement for such a small economy. Let's say for arguments sake that all the F-35's spontaneously combust and the whole thing is dropped. The F-16 is still in production and every bit as capable as the Gripen or Rafale. The F-18E is still in production and just as capable. Sure, a lot of money has been dumped into the F-35 program, but no risk no gain.

As for the media I tend to agree with this guy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvMb90hem8

Brilliant comedian. Love his routine on gamers since we're the same age (if you haven't seen it look him up on youtube).

[Zimme83]

That doesnt mean that a project cannot be discussed or critizised. It would be very bad if noone asked questions when the costs are skyrocketing.

[PR3D4TOR]

It's even worse to act (yes talking is an act) on unreliable information and increase the risk of the program with unnecessary criticism and bad publicity. Politicians are subject to public opinion. The cost issues surrounding the F-35 have been wildly misreported by many who don't understand the numbers involved. People who mix up unit cost with lifetime cost. People who don't get that the F-35 has a 50 year planned lifetime compared to 25 years for the F-16... And so on and so on. It's like what Dara O'Briain says, the media all too often give far too much time to horsesheit peddlers and wackos rather than the people who know what they're talking about. And WE who listen to the media mostly don't know who is who...

I asked you earlier about that report you linked to, but I didn't get an answer so I'll ask again: Do you understand what the report says and what in that report do you find worthy of criticism?

[PR3D4TOR]

Most people also don't get that the price tag of a fighter pales compared to the operating costs. After a few hundred flight hours you've spent more money on fuel and maintenance than what you paid for the aircraft. It cost thousands of $$$ just to fill one up with fuel. In terms of total investment over its lifetime the actual price tag for the initial purchase is only a tiny part of the total. The media don't get these things and neither does most people.

[PR3D4TOR]

Actually I've heard it compared to driving a car that need two hours of service at the shop after each drive... and it runs on bull sperm. 

[Zimme83]

See Rule #14