Author Topic: Is reality Real?  (Read 1609 times)

Offline Swoop

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2015, 03:26:39 AM »
See, this whole argument about us being simulated is bunk.  The shortened version of it is that if there are x number of billions of planets that support life and x number of billions of civilisation that could/can/did reach technological maturity then so many x number of those civs will have an interest in simulating historical scenarios (like us for example) which means there are going to be billions and billions and billions of simulated universes around, far outstripping the number of real universes.  Therefore, the chances that we're in a simulated one is much higher than being in a real one.

But here's the thing.....firstly, I personally have half a dozen different universes (albeit at a much lower res than this one) simulated on my PC right now.  I'm definitely not in any of them though.

Secondly, sure, I know simulations are getting pretty geeky these days (farming....goats, etc) but surely, no-one in their right mind is going to want to simulate me taking a dump in the morning.  Or simulate me simulating something that's way more fun than the simulation....so to speak.  I mean, as sims go, this one is even more geeky than World of Warcraft.

And thirdly, just using ratios as a method of predicting the state of things is a ridiculous thing.  There are billions of Chinese.....only 70 million British......so by this logic my mum should have had a Chinese son, right?  The most common first name in the world is Mohammed, the most common surname is Li......and I'll bet you right now you won't find one single Mohammed Li in the world.  Basing scientific theory on ratios of probability is almost as stupid a theory as:  In the beginning there was nothing....which exploded.

So no, I don't buy it.  It's all hogwash.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2015, 03:48:26 AM »
See, this whole argument about us being simulated is bunk.  The shortened version of it is that if there are x number of billions of planets that support life and x number of billions of civilisation that could/can/did reach technological maturity then so many x number of those civs will have an interest in simulating historical scenarios (like us for example) which means there are going to be billions and billions and billions of simulated universes around, far outstripping the number of real universes.  Therefore, the chances that we're in a simulated one is much higher than being in a real one.

But here's the thing.....firstly, I personally have half a dozen different universes (albeit at a much lower res than this one) simulated on my PC right now.  I'm definitely not in any of them though.

Secondly, sure, I know simulations are getting pretty geeky these days (farming....goats, etc) but surely, no-one in their right mind is going to want to simulate me taking a dump in the morning.  Or simulate me simulating something that's way more fun than the simulation....so to speak.  I mean, as sims go, this one is even more geeky than World of Warcraft.

And thirdly, just using ratios as a method of predicting the state of things is a ridiculous thing.  There are billions of Chinese.....only 70 million British......so by this logic my mum should have had a Chinese son, right?  The most common first name in the world is Mohammed, the most common surname is Li......and I'll bet you right now you won't find one single Mohammed Li in the world.  Basing scientific theory on ratios of probability is almost as stupid a theory as:  In the beginning there was nothing....which exploded.

So no, I don't buy it.  It's all hogwash.
See, this whole argument about us being simulated is bunk.  The shortened version of it is that if there are x number of billions of planets that support life and x number of billions of civilisation that could/can/did reach technological maturity then so many x number of those civs will have an interest in simulating historical scenarios (like us for example) which means there are going to be billions and billions and billions of simulated universes around, far outstripping the number of real universes.  Therefore, the chances that we're in a simulated one is much higher than being in a real one.

But here's the thing.....firstly, I personally have half a dozen different universes (albeit at a much lower res than this one) simulated on my PC right now.  I'm definitely not in any of them though.

Secondly, sure, I know simulations are getting pretty geeky these days (farming....goats, etc) but surely, no-one in their right mind is going to want to simulate me taking a dump in the morning.  Or simulate me simulating something that's way more fun than the simulation....so to speak.  I mean, as sims go, this one is even more geeky than World of Warcraft.

And thirdly, just using ratios as a method of predicting the state of things is a ridiculous thing.  There are billions of Chinese.....only 70 million British......so by this logic my mum should have had a Chinese son, right?  The most common first name in the world is Mohammed, the most common surname is Li......and I'll bet you right now you won't find one single Mohammed Li in the world.  Basing scientific theory on ratios of probability is almost as stupid a theory as:  In the beginning there was nothing....which exploded.

So no, I don't buy it.  It's all hogwash.

I did find a mohamad ali.  so by definition your explanation just got 99% debunked.  if you include the fact that most people have a tendency to misspell then we can come with the conclusion based on my unscientific vodka and tonic logic that ali was actually a misspelling due to I dont know maybe the same reason why we have a guy named oral roberts.  think about it what was their mom thinking about when they named him?  same goes for ali, think his mama was more like yalling "alli, alli".  so when he got older he remember his mom screaming that name behind closed doors and therefore he thought he was calling his name.

let me go get another drink and I'll tell you about the life of brian.


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Offline Swoop

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2015, 04:27:53 AM »
I refuse to accept anyone who's chosen their own name (like Cassius Clay) as evidence that a Mohammed Li (or even a misspelled Mohammed Li) exists.  Therefore we are not living in a computer simulation. 

And dare you to build a time machine, go back to 1975 and tell Mohammed Ali that he can't spell his own name.


Offline pembquist

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2015, 09:57:37 AM »
The time machine feature won't be available till the next update.
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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2015, 11:58:45 AM »
My personal favorite implication of quantum physics is that time might not be continous, but rather exist at discrete quanta at the Planck-time scale.

Oh, also the Planck temperature.
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Online DmonSlyr

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2015, 03:32:24 PM »
One of the funniest things was my ex conspiritor roommate showing us a video about the world being "One big computer Simulation". The guy in the video said " One big computer Simulation" like at least 30 times with his British accent. Omg it was sooo funny. I couldn't even take the video seriously.

 

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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2015, 07:22:28 PM »
One of the funniest things was my ex conspiritor roommate showing us a video about the world being "One big computer Simulation". The guy in the video said " One big computer Simulation" like at least 30 times with his British accent. Omg it was sooo funny. I couldn't even take the video seriously.

You see the flat-earth conspiracy nuts?
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2015, 08:04:34 PM »
This is unreal.   :noid

The time machine feature won't be available till the next update.

Two weeks.
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Offline kappa

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2015, 09:59:46 PM »
You see the flat-earth conspiracy nuts?

looks flat in every picture i've seen  ;p
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Online DmonSlyr

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2015, 11:13:23 AM »
You see the flat-earth conspiracy nuts?


People are so loony man. Some people literally think everything in this world is out to get them and everything created by man is an atrocity with some hidden agenda behind it. It's like, lets take the first space shuttle landing on the moon for example. You have NASA written reports, a real rocket lift off, samples from the moon, reports from the astronauts, so on and so for. Yet, these loons decry the whole thing as a conspiracy simply because the flag was waving. These are the types of nut jobs who don't do a single bit of research about science, math, gravity, and wind, so they spread roadkill around the world to make people believe in what they do, and the worst part is that people will believe them.

Talk about idiocracy. 
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Offline SysError

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2015, 02:57:17 PM »
So in other words, if there are millions of these simulations then you have nearly a 0 chance of being in the real universe.
 

The idea of not really existing was probably first fully put forward by Bishop Berkeley in 1710 in “A Treatise Concerning the Principles of Human Knowledge”.

http://www.amazon.com/Treatise-Concerning-Principles-Knowledge-Philosophical/dp/048643253X

Berkeley’s main idea is that reality is just perception.   Reality only exists in our minds and objects only exist to the degree that they are vivid in our minds. 

“To be is to be perceived"
 
He is going way beyond Plato’s idea that something exists because we hold an essence of it in our minds.

The point I am trying to make here is that you may not need to buy in to (or perhaps understand) a Quantum Theory of holographic existence to argue that existence is some sort of simulation.

To be fair, I do not really understand Quantum Theory; I am a sort of like a lost tourist hopelessly flipping through a poorly edited phrase book for the wrong country --without my reading glasses.   It is not that I have forgotten more than I once knew, it is that I muddle up more than I sometimes understand.  I am reading a book right now that has a large section devoted to Quantum Theory but I do not hold out much hope that I’ll understand it.


Newton's laws of motion say that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction
 

Wait.  Since you are talking about the creation of the universe, why bring Newton into it?  It is a bit like using a pastry chef as your main guy in a NASCAR pit crew.  Wrong skill set for issue at hand perhaps?

This little conundrum is the reason why Einstein and the majority of his piers refuse to accept the Big Bang model, because it means that something that transcends, time, energy, space and matter, somehow created reality and the universe around you.

Yes there are a great many areas were Einstein didn't go.  Einstein did not come up with a large number of theories, he only worked on a small number of ideas that have come to be the basis of one of our current frameworks of understanding the universe – the theory of General Relativity (the other framework idea is Quantum Theory.  And yes, I’m leaving out String theory/M-theory for the moment).

Einstein himself never really proved any of his theories through predictions.  In fact it wasn’t until 1919 when Arthur Eddington, four years after Einstein’s 1915 publication, used a total solar eclipse to prove Einstein’s idea that light bends.  (To be fair, that it bends more than it was thought possible.)

In a sense we have moved beyond Einstein.  In 1915, the accepted assumption was that the universe was static.   It was Hubble who 20 or 30 years later (not sure when) realized that the universe was expanding, and it was right after that that the current idea of the Big Bang was developed by Georges Lemaître, a Belgian Catholic priest and cosmologist. At the end you can thank Hawking.  He "proved" singularity.


In 1982 a physicist known as Alain Aspect out of the University of Paris discovers that certain particles can communicate with each other regardless of the distance between each-other instantaneously, regardless of the space between them. This directly disputes Einstein's law that information cannot travel faster than the speed of light, and suggests that space as we know it is an illusion.
 

It is true, we believe that nothing can go faster than ~187,000 miles per second – the speed of light.  But I am sure that Alain Aspect knows that because of Einstein’s spacetime continuum you can argue that you might be able to bend the spacetime fabric around itself, much in the same way that you can fold the top part of a sheet of paper to its bottom half.  So why would you say that you are using this to dispute Einstein?  If he really has figured out how to “move” faster than light, he is the smartest person that you or I have heard of in the past 100 years.

I know that this is going to sound strange, but in a sense the following might be more believable:  It sounds to me as if he should be arguing that he has developed/discovered some sort of time machine. We already know that time travel is possible.  It has been proven.  But it is a boring type of time travel – time dilation.  There are several other passible theories about time travel, maybe he has stumbled into one of them.

Either that or he is really on the cusp of a new type of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

Until someone reconciles General Relativity and Quantum Theory I guess these sort of issues will arise.

I will try to spend some time reading up on Alain Aspect but I am not sure that I’ll become a fan.

For me, the best way to understand Einstein is through Bertrand Russell's ABC of Relativity. Easy to read without overlooking anything important (expect for the math).

http://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Routledge-Classics-Bertrand-Russell/dp/0415473829
"Authoritative and accessible, it provides a remarkable introductory guide to Einstein’s theory of Relativity for a general readership".

Or:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sio4yOdSbQI
Bertrand Russell - ABC of Relativity: Part 1


(cont….)

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Offline SysError

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2015, 02:57:49 PM »
(part II)

Now let's take a look at the standard scientific model of the universe.

I'm losing it.  The standard model has been proven complete with the discovery of the so called God Particle, the Higgs boson.  (BTW: I read that the reason it has been called the God particle is that a couple of physicists who were trying to get a paper published used a working title of "That G*d D*m Particle", the publisher refused to use it and they all compromised on the "God Particle").  Physicists have come to hate the term the God particle.  Media loves it, it sells print.

The point really is this: Now that we believe that we know for sure everything that makes up the Standard Model of particle physics, we have a real problem with how much we know about the universe.

In the 1970s a female American astronomer Vera Rubin (still with us) unexpectedly proved that if we take everything we know about Newtonian Physics and General Relativity, we can “see” or explain only about 4% of the universe.  Something else--and we do not know what--makes up about 96% of “other matter”, or dark matter (and – to later to also include dark energy).  People had had the idea of dark matter before the 1970s, but there was never any evidence until Rubin, who working with galaxies and how they moved, realized that unless you “add” 96% of this other thing you couldn’t explain the universe, gravity, time and really, at the end of the day, my 1972 Dodge Dart.

Until the Large Hadron Collider proved that the Standard Model was complete, one strong theory was that we had missed something really big in the Standard Model.  We now know that that is not true.

We are now looking for a new physics, beyond the Standard Model.

It is an exciting time to be alive.  500 years from now, (when AH ver 30.0 is released), if we are still around as a civilization, people are going to look back in time and say – “And that’s when they started their search for ….????”  (I know, I know, they will be saying it in Chinese but my hanzi sucks!)

There are several issues in going beyond the Standard Model and you can really see them when you look to see how the Higgs was discovered.  The Higgs boson was discovered at an energy level of 8 teraelectronvolts (TeV) (actually a low level of energy, it is just that it is in one particle).  The LHC can go up to 20 Tev (I believe) but take note of some real big issues.  First they kind of had a few good guesses as to the mass of the Higgs and they had a good idea of how long they had to see the Higgs.  An estimate is that a Higgs boson, once created in the LHC, has a “life” of a Zeptosecond.  Or 10 ^-21 of one second or; one ten-billionth of a trillionth of a second or; 0.000000000000000000001 of a second.  In fact, they realized that they couldn’t see it at those speeds so they looked for (and found) the expected debris field from a Higgs collision.  All very reasonable, so they sort of knew what to look for and how long they had to find it.  Next problem was how to capture and process the data.

A collision in the LHC generates, in about a second or a second and a half, about six petabytes or’ 10 ^15 or 1,000,000,000,000,000 bytes or six thousand terabytes of data.  So the first thing you have to do is figure out what sliver of data you are going to capture.  And guess what, if you have a few good ideas about its mass and what to look for in a debris field, your task goes from really impossible to just very, very hard.

With dark matter no one really has any firm ideas of what to look for and at what energy levels!

I have read that using 20 Tev to poke around in Dark Matter is like using a kid’s water squirt gun when what you really need is a couple of fire hydrants.

(BTW: if you want to read about the Higgs and the LHC you can do no better than: The Particle at the End of the Universe: How the Hunt for the Higgs Boson Leads Us to the Edge of a New World, by Sean Carroll http://www.amazon.com/The-Particle-End-Universe-Higgs/dp/0142180300)

Of the people you cite, I think that I am more interested in Nick Bostrom than any of the others.  I got some time, but perhaps it is something that I will add to my fall reading list.

And it doesn't matter who you side with because science is right now testing to see if we live within a hologram.
 

I do not know.

I got to leave now.

It’s our dolphin’s feeding time.

« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 03:22:34 PM by SysError »
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Offline deSelys

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2015, 09:19:43 AM »
OP, I think that you'll find this talk interesting:

http://www.ted.com/talks/donald_hoffman_do_we_see_reality_as_it_is
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2015, 10:51:14 AM »
I fail to understand the concept of 'you only exist if you're being observed'. That would mean that anyone stranded on a remote desert island would not exist anymore. Yet they sit there waiting when someone discovers them. Robinson Crusoe would have not been written lol.
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Offline Meatwad

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Re: Is reality Real?
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2015, 09:03:20 PM »
So if I hide in a closet, then I no longer exist.  Sweet! Now I can get out of doing unwanted jobs my wife gives me
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