A $650 system that gives 60 fps

[GSakis]

How else do you plan on getting 140fps while not running the risk of getting artifacts and rubber bullets?

For the umptieth time: A system CAPABLE of 300fps does not need a 300hz monitor in order to be capable to that. Christ.

[guncrasher]

the thing with a dell and other name brand computers is that you cannot really upgrade them later on.  I think in the long run, it would be better if you build your own computer and upgrade little by little as you see fit.

my first computer cost me about 600 bucks 5 or 6 years ago.  it was an e8400 cpu with a 9800gtx card.  it played the ah new release back then at full frames.  it was awesome.

I spent 500 bucks to upgrade cpu/mobo/ram and sold the e8400/mobo/ram for 200 bucks.  so I spent 300 bucks to my current 2500k/mobo/ram.  the 9800gtx sold it for 100 bucks I think way back then then got a evga 465 for 350 bucks.  I ended up trading that 465 for a 970 even though I really didnot see any improvements at the time.

all the other parts havent really changed from that first build 6 years ago, I think.  my hitachi hd which I dropped when I was first installing it and has some broken pieces off a corner is still going strong.

think building your own rather than buying off the shelf systems, will get you a better faster system in the long run.


semp

[GSakis]

It never fails for me to post anything about a Dell, prove that it is a decent budget system (decent in terms of what you get for the price), and yet have at least one built-it-yourself zealot post that I'm way off . . . but then fail to back it up.

You want to back up that a build-it-yourself system is better than the $500 Dell box?

Then do this -- post the parts, links, and prices for:

i5-4460 or better
a motherboard
a power supply
a case
a kb
a mouse
a DVD+/-RW
a hard disk
4 GB of RAM or better
Windows pro (7 or 8)

Why?  Because that's what's in the $500 Dell.

Do the above, and I will say, "OK, well done.  You are right."  Until then, I am doubtful that anyone will do anything other than tie the Dell, and then it will require mail-in rebates (which in my experience about half the time don't pay you back).

All that's in a 500 dollar dell attached to the weakest H81 chipset that has been stripped of everything possible. You can't overclock or expand that system for much anything. It has only two ram slots, one PCI-E x16 slot and no advanced storage functionality. It has subpar cooling for a gaming box because it's designed to do light office work. It has an ancient hard drive model from Dell mass purchases 5 years ago. Everything in it is cheap and low quality. When you build your own you can choose better components for your needs. It has windows 7/8 pro only because it's designed to be used in the office and that requires AD compatibility which only pro and enterprise versions have. The 'pro' gives zero benefit for a gamer. In fact having only two ram slots you're going to have a hard time exceeding home versions memory limitations even (if you would be crazy enough to buy ram for the price of the rest of the machine lol).

You can see how much Dell charges for it's idea of gaming computer, Alienware. The internet is full of 600-700 dollar gaming box instructions (which are better than the Dell) so I'm not going to waste my time listing one to you - it would be a waste of time anyway as we've seen already.

[Skuzzy]

The H81 chipset will perform as well as the Z97 chipset will, at stock clocks.  The only thing missing is the overclocking ability, duel PCI-e 16 lane slots, and some optional items in the Z97 chipset.

When fitted with the same RAM and video card, you will not be able to tell the difference in performance between those two chipsets.  8GB of system RAM will suffice for most games.  Certainly enough for Aces High.

Brooke is quite right.  For a budget build one would be hard pressed to do better than refurbishing a Dell. 

[katanaso]

So, I am happy with its performance/price and would recommend it as a good budget system for AH.

Meanwhile, Brooke's point was obviously lost while searching for reasons to argue.   

[Brooke]

Meanwhile, Brooke's point was obviously lost while searching for reasons to argue.   

 

[Brooke]

You can't overclock

Correct.  But I don't ever do that.  Also, the Dell already has a CPU much better than in the machine you posted a link to, so think of it as the equivalent of being pre-overclocked.

It has only two ram slots, one PCI-E x16 slot

Correct.  But I don't desire more than 16 GB or more than one graphics card.

and no advanced storage functionality.

I don't know what you mean.

It has subpar cooling for a gaming box because it's designed to do light office work.

Incorrect.  Also, I have checked with temperature monitors of GPU and CPU during game play.  Everything is fine.

It has an ancient hard drive model from Dell mass purchases 5 years ago.

Don't be daft.  It has a Seagate Barracuda, 7200 RPM.

Everything in it is cheap and low quality.

Incorrect.  Intel motherboard (which I trust much more than others), Intel CPU (which I trust much more than others), and name-brand drives.  What is cheap is the power supply, but as you will recall from my 1st post above, I replaced that with a Corsair.  Also, as you will recall from my 1st post above, those cheap power supplies are very reliable.

One of the applications we have for Dells is to run our DNA synthesizers.  Those computers stay in service for years, running 24/7.  At least one (if not more) was nearly 10 years old (and still working fine) before we replaced it.  If the computer running the synthesizer crashes during a run, it can cost us up to about $30,000 retail worth of product lost, and we have to resynthesize.  Also, we occasionally sell these synthesizers.  An instrument costs the customer approx. $300,000, and a Dell runs it.  If the Dell on such an instrument fails, it costs us up to thousands of dollars to take care of the problem (if we have to fly people around the world to deal with it).

I would not trust a build-it-yourself system for the above uses.

When you build your own you can choose better components for your needs.

Yes, of course.  No one disputes that.  It's just that it costs you more.

It has windows 7/8 pro only because

If you don't want the pro OS, you can get the same computer from the "for home" section of Dell instead of the "for work" section.  The "for home" version comes with Windows 10 home and more RAM, and the price is $480 instead of the $500 system I got.

I want the pro version of the OS for my home computer, though.  I would pay more to get it.  I use my computer for more things.

Alienware.

I'm not talking about Alienware.  Those don't have the same performance/price as what I'm talking about here.  They are irrelevant to what I'm saying.

[Brooke]

The other thing is that there are occasionally people I try to recruit into AH who don't have computers capable of gaming, don't yet have the knowledge to shop for or to assemble their own computer, and won't devote any time to learning such a thing.  Nor will they go to a place that will build it for them.  Nor will they pay $1000 or more for a gaming system.

For these folks, if I get them interested in AH, it reduces the barrier to entry enormously if I can tell them a lower-priced Dell to buy.

[Brooke]

the thing with a dell and other name brand computers is that you cannot really upgrade them later on.

You can't upgrade the CPU or clock speed, true enough.

But you can change to a faster graphics card.

And if you are running into needing a CPU upgrade for gaming, you probably would benefit from faster RAM, faster bus on the motherboard, etc.

What I usually do instead of upgrading parts is just get a new system every 3-5 years for approx. $700 and move the just-replaced one down my stack of other machines (i.e., my former gaming computer becomes the new theater computer, my former theater computer is given away).  That $700 is an upgraded graphics card, upgraded CPU, upgraded RAM and bus speed.  Now that I have kids, in a few years, I probably will have a larger stack of computers for upgrades to percolate through.

[Dragon Tamer]

I should mention that I tried to build a system equal to what Brooke specified out of curiosity. I matched his processor and used the absolute cheapest compatible parts to go with it. The only thing that I didn't go cheap on was that hard drive, which I chose a 500GB drive instead of the 160GB that I originally had. I bent the rules and used windows 10 pro since it was $10 cheaper.

The total cost of the system was $503.98. With mail in rebates It was $489.56. Even if I had chosen the cheapest possible HD, it would have only saved another $20. On top of all this is shipping, which I didn't bother calculating, and the time that it would take to build it (at least a two hour job if you do decent work). In addition to the parts that I didn't include (speakers/headphones, heat sink compound) the system would have been at least $550.

Brooke has a pretty good system for a damn good price. Also; while it's true that he can't overclock, he can easily swap out his processor with a newer/more powerful one and it would be just as effective.

[Dichotomy]

This is a really interesting thread and I've read it without understanding what most of you are talking about so I have an interesting premise. 

If I were to walk up to any one of you and say 'I have a thousand dollars and I want a gaming rig built by someone who knows how.  It has to have a dvd burner (although I'd prefer two).  Budget $300 for a monitor.

Go. 

[Dragon Tamer]

This is a really interesting thread and I've read it without understanding what most of you are talking about so I have an interesting premise. 

If I were to walk up to any one of you and say 'I have a thousand dollars and I want a gaming rig built by someone who knows how.  It has to have a dvd burner (although I'd prefer two).  Budget $300 for a monitor.

Go.

Depends on what you plan on using it for. I assume that since you want two disk burners, that you are using it for some sort of media system.

This is the parts list I threw together on a whim. No particular order to it, just threw it together:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/QTCYZL

This is the parts list with a set of monitors included. Each monitor is just shy of the $300 mark.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/qnLQQ7

[GSakis]

The other thing is that there are occasionally people I try to recruit into AH who don't have computers capable of gaming, don't yet have the knowledge to shop for or to assemble their own computer, and won't devote any time to learning such a thing.  Nor will they go to a place that will build it for them.  Nor will they pay $1000 or more for a gaming system.

For these folks, if I get them interested in AH, it reduces the barrier to entry enormously if I can tell them a lower-priced Dell to buy.

For these folks a ready computer may (stress the word may) be a better option. Even then as Skuzzy said any hardware change is risky for them if they don't know what they're doing to begin with.

Which functions of the Windows pro version exactly do you use at home? Are you running active directory / domain at home and if yes, why?

[Skuzzy]

Those are not the only reasons to have Pro over Home.

Network backup and restore are not available in Home, nor is hosting a remote desktop session.  The remote desktop session is invaluable for me when I am home.

The memory restrictions of home (16GB) vs Pro could be another reason.

Maybe there is a need to run a virtual Windows XP window for applications which work in that environment.

You need to just back away from this thread.  You are not adding anything helpful to it.  You are just distracting people from a perfectly valid suggestion.  People like Brooke are helpful.  You are not being helpful.  You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Dichotomy]

Depends on what you plan on using it for. I assume that since you want two disk burners, that you are using it for some sort of media system.

This is the parts list I threw together on a whim. No particular order to it, just threw it together:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/QTCYZL

This is the parts list with a set of monitors included. Each monitor is just shy of the $300 mark.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/qnLQQ7

Thank you Dragon.  I've been thinking about upgrading my box for a while but, in all honesty, what I know about hardware would fit in a thimble and leave room.  I'll be looking at that list early in January.