Delta Airlines has a pilot training issue

[Puma44]

Well put, Frenchy.

[Ripsnort]

Rippy!

Nah ... I think it's a uneducated coffee machine statement. Despite the technology available it's not always easy to go around cells. Stay away from the red stuff is not always clear cut. When you have a 80 miles wide storm front you navigate the best through it IF you have the freedom to do so. The closer you are from the airport, the less freedom you have. Can't miss that entry gate, or deviate too much from other segments of the SID/STAR/App, especially in busy cardiac hours launch/recovery class B airports in mountainous areas.

Then there's red stuff and red stuff. Some red cells are very dense rain, some hail and some crazy donut hail, but you don't know ahead of time. Satellite weather updates only every few minutes and fast moving fronts shift the image a couple, of miles.

It's easy for the common Joe or 'Super Pilot' to blame the pilot. The reality is they do the best they can with what they have. Flying is still trick stuff and you don't always win.

I will concede after speaking with a good friend of mine who flies 737 for Alaska who said this in an email;

Hail does indeed fall in predictable areas of a storm but pilots don't have that information available during flight thus we don't always make the right decision on the correct approach flight path.


Never fly under anything that looks the anvil portion of the thunderstorm and avoid flying through the vertical thunderstorm cloud.



Also, although you might fly in the clear air below an anvil, it may be difficult or impossible to spot hail falling prior to running into it.

[icepac]

Hail can be encountered as far as 20 miles from the edge of the anvil.

[DaveBB]

Hail can be encountered as far as 20 miles from the edge of the anvil.

Is that a typo?  I've read it can range from 2-3 miles from the edge of the anvil, but not 20 miles.

[icepac]

Hail is often tossed laterally out the top of the anvil and planes have encountered it as high as 45,000 feet in otherwise clear air.

[Puma44]

Icepac is correct.

[flight17]

The 60's did not have the technology we have today regarding weather. There is no excuse from a pilot perspective regarding weather unless it is in controlled airspace whereas that responsibility falls on the ATC tower since pilots are typically "head down" on land preps.

The pilot had one of two things on his mind;
"Fly through it with risk, land and get to the hotel and bang this flight attendant that dropped Viagra into my coffee"
or
"The company emphasis's using as little fuel as possible, I'll take the risk and make my log book fuel-usage look stellear"

Except for the southern Airways accident happened in '77 and many of the planes from that era where still flying until just a few years ago.

Airliners, in the US at least, are always in controlled airspace, except when arriving/departing from the very few untowered airports that see commercial service. Except for the visual approach, almost every commercial flight is conducted under instrument flight rules.

Modern Radar in aircraft can't even detect hail and as it has already been pointed out, hail can be experienced up to 20nm from the cell. When you have a line of storms hundred miles across, it's either take the best route possible through the cells with the available information given or terminate the flight. Encountering hail like this is rare.

Someone brought up Delta's 747 hail incident in china. That was because in China, the military owns the majority of the airspace and there are only small paths through the military airspace for commercial airliners.

The crew probably just shot an automated landing.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

BTW kudos to the plane $ engines  for taking the beating.

[Brooke]

Oh that'll buff right out.

Heh!  I was thinking the same thing. 

[CavPuke]

Airliners, in the US at least, are always in controlled airspace, except when arriving/departing from the very few untowered airports that see commercial service. Except for the visual approach, almost every commercial flight is conducted under instrument flight rules.

A Visual Approach is conducted under IFR:

JO 7110.65V
4/3/14
7-4-1

Approaches
Section 4.  Approaches 7-4-1


1.  VISUAL APPROACH
A visual approach is an ATC authorization for an aircraft on an IFR flight plan to proceed visually to the airport of intended landing; it is not an instrument approach procedure. Also, there is no missed approach segment. An aircraft unable to complete a visual approach must be handled as any go-around and appropriate separation must be provided.

[craz07]

hail to the king for landing that thing.....

[DaveBB]

Hail is often tossed laterally out the top of the anvil and planes have encountered it as high as 45,000 feet in otherwise clear air.

But how does it travel 20 miles laterally? I'm only asking because I am curious.  I just cant find any information on that.  I googled it, and only the FAA's website and Wikipedia gave me finite figures.

So say the hail is shot to 45,000 feet.  What propels its laterally from there?

[Puma44]

But how does it travel 20 miles laterally? I'm only asking because I am curious.  I just cant find any information on that.  I googled it, and only the FAA's website and Wikipedia gave me finite figures.

So say the hail is shot to 45,000 feet.  What propels its laterally from there?

Unbelievably high energy and winds at altitude.