787 battery fires: NOT caused by batteries

[Ripsnort]

But rather union workers.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Investigation-2013-Dreamliner-fire-caused-by-crossed-wires-322282171.html

[Ack-Ack]

Don't tell beet1e otherwise you'll destroy his only argument against Boeing.

[bustr]

See Rule #14

[Ripsnort]

Lithium batteries and the design was new to the Boeing fleet in the 787.

Boeing will continue to move production lines either to Right to Work states or overseas. The union has no say so over WHERE the work moves, only the contracted negotiated for existing work.

It's a dog eat dog world out there, the unions have out-priced themselves selfishly while taking American workers jobs with them during their spiral from grace.

[Karnak]

That is not an improvement.

[zack1234]

Unions

Free market economy

Giberish and you know it.

They will making them in China in 25 years time and you will be scratching your butts trying to figure out how it happened.

[Hajo]

First of all you can't blame American manufacturers for moving out of country.  American manufacturers pay the highest tax at 39%.  So yes....to make a profit is essential. 
 They have to!  The more the better!  After all there are things called share holders that have to be satisfied.  Employees also.  This is not greed it is survival.  Over 70% of all jobs in the US are government jobs.  In order to become successful as a country that percentage of Govt. jobs has to drop.  Govt. workers are paid with tax money paid by all of us.  When Govt. Employees pay taxes .....guess what?  They pay them with tax payers monies.  You wish to balance a budget?  Lower the national debt.?  Encourage the private sector to hire!
How does one do that?  Lower the tax rate that Corps. pay.  Even a slight decrease will encourage more expansion in the US, bring some jobs back and encourage the creation
of more private sector jobs.  We don't need the recycling of tax payers monies. Most major manufacturers do not wish to move operations over seas.  They operate at a disadvantage
here because of regulations and laws in the US that are more stringent then in most foreign competitor's country's.  Wrong or right we don't play on an even field.

Let us all let our Government get bigger so we can go broke faster!  The are some essential govt. employers don't get me wrong.  But most we can do without.

We desperately need private sector jobs that make the country run (remember they are the only ones that pay taxes with private money)  Not larger Govt. spending and paying Govt. employee's with private sector money and recycling that money to pay taxes.  The private sector in the US is where all the Government's monies come from. 

[Nypsy]

We bid for Boeing work and the buyer told us up front we would be bidding against manufacturers from around the world, including China.

[SysError]

First of all you can't blame American manufacturers for moving out of country.  American manufacturers pay the highest tax at 39%.  So yes....to make a profit is essential.

American corporations, with the exception of true small businesses,  pay nowhere near 39% in taxes.  I think that in 2008 (or somewhere within a few years +/or - thereof) a large number of very large, very profitable corporations got cash incentives from the government.  (I am saying this poorly, but not only did they not pay any taxes for very profitable business, they actually had the Government hand them a "Thank-You for Being You" check .  (And this sort of stuff happens every year).

For me David Cay Johnston has done a good job of documenting these sort of issues.

http://www.amazon.com/David-Cay-Johnston/e/B001KDG3PW/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1440095781&sr=1-1
 
My wife, however, does not encourage me to read his books anymore.  She got the following book for me one Xmas:
http://www.amazon.com/Perfectly-Legal-Campaign-Rich---verybody/dp/1591840694/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

Anyway, after I started reading it I would jump out of my chair about every 5 or 10 minutes swearing my head off and yelling "Why the H*** aren't these A**H*** in jail".

[HL117]

But rather union workers.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Investigation-2013-Dreamliner-fire-caused-by-crossed-wires-322282171.html

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/787-assembly-problems-in-charleston-drag-on-everett/







Maybe a little research into what was the line number of each plane in question and at what facilty was the section manufactured at, were the wires for the emergency locator beacon installed on final assy or during production of that section before shipping to final assy, same for wires under battery compartment.

South Carolina facility in nonunion and yes they do quite a bit of work there, having worked in aviation my entire adult life in both union and nonunion shops I see the postives and weaknesses of both, I can tell you experience/ knowledge is lacking on the nonunion side and must be accounted for with additional inspectors and quality assurance types.

Maybe machines will do away with all the manufacturing and engineering someday and we all can just play AH 15 all day long.

[SysError]

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/787-assembly-problems-in-charleston-drag-on-everett/



(Image removed from quote.)



Maybe a little research into what was the line number of each plane in question and at what facilty was the section manufactured at, were the wires for the emergency locator beacon installed on final assy or during production of that section before shipping to final assy, same for wires under battery compartment.

South Carolina facility in nonunion and yes they do quite a bit of work there, having worked in aviation my entire adult life in both union and nonunion shops I see the postives and weaknesses of both, I can tell you experience/ knowledge is lacking on the nonunion side and must be accounted for with additional inspectors and quality assurance types.

Maybe machines will do away with all the manufacturing and engineering someday and we all can just play AH 15 all day long.

Really interesting chart and article.

To expand upon your point about union and nonunion shops, even within a union there can be great differences between locals.

I read an interesting book with a well argued critique of modern US unions written by a union insider.  Even though she is telling the story of nurses in Nevada, she does so in the context of the problems and mistakes of US unions.

http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Expectations-Hell-Fighting-Movement-ebook/dp/B007HXKY22/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

Good read.

Using a broad brush that says "Oh, it's the unions" is lazy thinking.  As your cited article makes clear, unless you know what is happening on the factory floor, you are not going to have a clue as to what is going on.

With inspectors signing off on work that was never done, I am not sure I want to ever get on a 787 - battery issues or not.

[rpm]

Sounds to me like Boeing QC dropped the ball.

[Ripsnort]

Sounds to me like Boeing QC dropped the ball.

Yep. They tend to be the highest paid union workers at Boeing.

[SysError]

Yep. They tend to be the highest paid union workers at Boeing.

Ripsnort, just to  be clear;  It was nonunion inspectors in Charleston who signed off on work that was not done and union inspectors at the Boeing Everett Factory, in Everett, Washington who discovered the problem.


My guess is, and I base this on other cases,  that the union workers in Everett know that their union will protect them from management while the nonunion workers in a right to work state have no such protections.

[Ripsnort]

Ripsnort, just to  be clear;  It was nonunion inspectors in Charleston who signed off on work that was not done and union inspectors at the Boeing Everett Factory, in Everett, Washington who discovered the problem.


My guess is, and I base this on other cases,  that the union workers in Everett know that their union will protect them from management while the nonunion workers in a right to work state have no such protections.

That is incorrect. Those first 75 line numbers were all made in the Pacific Northwest. Charleston facility was still being built. I know this for a fact, as I'm on the 787 program supporting ME's.

Now, come back with the line numbers of the troubled aircraft and we'll have a reasonable discussion that has facts and data.