Author Topic: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High  (Read 23546 times)

Offline Skyyr

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #240 on: August 30, 2015, 10:48:42 PM »
Just looking at the last kills/killed by id' over the weekend, somebody might want to ask Icepac his opinion of the efficacy of SDGT. He seems to be winning that one. :lipsrsealed:

In case you're wondering, your last kills get assigned to your last killers list when you log out and log back in. I'd tread carefully before dragging in additional parties. ;)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 11:04:25 PM by Skyyr »
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #241 on: August 31, 2015, 01:29:31 AM »
Please continue...this is getting interesting.
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #242 on: August 31, 2015, 09:12:39 AM »
In case you're wondering, your last kills get assigned to your last killers list when you log out and log back in. I'd tread carefully before dragging in additional parties. ;)

The implication of this effect (of which I was unaware) would be clear. I'd still like to hear his opinion, if for no other reason than to stoke drama - something which all things Skyyr appear to do. I'm not sure if it's you or them or the usual effect of taking a bunch of hyper-competitive individuals, pitting them in opposition in any arena, and seeing what results. That's a pretty nice return on 15 bucks a month, excitement-wise. 

This last weekend, I think I only saw your tail. But Fess jumped my 109F-4 after we broke off, catching me unaware and on the deck. Nonetheless, I'd call it a good w/e for me. I had some nice fights. I think it was Ordy who tied to stall fight my g-14 from an N1K2. He ended up eating a 20 mil after the reversal. Lizard and I had some nice g-14 on 38 fights.

One thing I've learned here recently - and it's fundamental but, as I note, I'm very part-time with this game, is to try to never let the g-14 get mushy when in proximity to enemy, exceptions being at the peak of a vertical maneuver that was very much required for survival. The g-14 gets mushy below about 230 TAS. Below that, it's toast for anyone with relatively decent gunnery skills and an energy advantage. Above that, especially around 300, I can turn into any attack, worst case, even one from above, reverse vertically, then build airspeed at the incremental alt in time for the next pass, if the alt grab was brief enough. It really is a good machine in terms of quick energy income.

I've never got what you guys do - this BnZ stuff - but probably need to learn it, if for no other reason that those inevitable FSO's in which I get stuck with some detestable POS like the Jug. It seems to me that, in order to make that work, you need to be very good at lead shots. My temptation with the D-9 was always to saddle up; a sure way to get killed.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #243 on: August 31, 2015, 09:44:11 AM »
The 109s do fight very well at low speeds. It's just an art you have to learn from expereince and dueling a lot. The plane is one of the most capable medium difficulty planes to defend in. It's just a tough plane because you have to be aggressive and you cannot fly it BnZ style like a 190D or P51. The key in 109s is not to saddle your opponents but kill them on quick snap shots and setting up positions for quick shots when the plane is slow and crossing closely infront of you. You don't really aim it the same way you do with BnZ style planes.

The BnZ styles planes are meant to saddle apponets from high alts and make lead shooting passes to hurt the enemy. Instead of getting the enemy in slow close positions. The BnZ style often reflects shooting a plane from your 12 to their 6. If the enemy plane turns off, you pull back up and try it again. The BnZ players fail when they get too slow in a roll to try to stay on their 6 and end up in the guns of a better defending fighter. The other trick BnZers can use is the rope a dope. But this is risky as other bad guys who are fast and notice you may swoop in for a pick as your are stallking over. That takes some SA and timing experience.

So yes there are different positions you should be attempting to aim with in these planes that utilize different fighting styles effectively. Learning how to peform these styles in a plane like the 109 which is a slash attack aggressive fighter compared to a P47 which is a dive shoot and climb fighter  will make your chances of survival  lot higher in each plane. Obviously slash attack style is a little more intense and harder to learn, but that is the fun of the game.

The G14s and 109s in general love defensive fightingas to get close crossing shots for quick kills, so you just have to work on defensive style tactics.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 09:46:34 AM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #244 on: August 31, 2015, 10:48:52 AM »
Thanks, V. Everything you wrote makes sense to me. I'd only add, the 109 also ropes well, but it's just because of the stellar climb rate. I too have reservations about this tactic - since it puts a bandit on my low 6 and leaves me mushing at the top, potentially.

But, any port in a storm...

Any words of wisdom on the N1K2? I find it highly enjoyable to fly. My impressions, it's low wingloading and heavy firepower make it nimble in any kind of turn fight. It accelerates better than I expect for something so light on its wings. The only thing it seems to lack is a high top end.
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Offline Shrike

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #245 on: August 31, 2015, 10:56:25 AM »

Awesome information!  I think an appendix is warranted in volume 2 that should outline the equipment savings with documentation such VRR's.  That could really bring the new players into the fold quickly. 

Additionally, I've added a request on the Top 10 ideas to improve AH thread.  I've requested that AH add a full-time SDGT instructor, 24-7.  There currently isn't one on staff.  Maybe, if we are lucky, you could see your way clear to train the trainer as it were.

I feel like things should be evened out and that someone should draft a doctrine to defeat the said SDGT doctrine :).


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Offline Skyyr

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #246 on: August 31, 2015, 10:57:43 AM »
The implication of this effect (of which I was unaware) would be clear. I'd still like to hear his opinion...

You're welcome to ask him for it. Since you've brought it up, I also streamed the duel on Twitch and on YouTube.

Here's the Twitch stream exported:



That said, I'm not sure why you're bringing icepac into this. If you were curious, you could have PM'd me. I duel a lot of players (20-30 in the last few months) and it's actually rare for me to post the duels, as many of them end on amicable terms, as did this one.
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Tours:
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198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - ---

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 29-7

"Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Offline Someguy63

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #247 on: August 31, 2015, 11:03:12 AM »
Thanks, V. Everything you wrote makes sense to me. I'd only add, the 109 also ropes well, but it's just because of the stellar climb rate. I too have reservations about this tactic - since it puts a bandit on my low 6 and leaves me mushing at the top, potentially.

But, any port in a storm...

Any words of wisdom on the N1K2? I find it highly enjoyable to fly. My impressions, it's low wingloading and heavy firepower make it nimble in any kind of turn fight. It accelerates better than I expect for something so light on its wings. The only thing it seems to lack is a high top end.

I'd ask 2cmex about the N1K
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Offline LilMak

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #248 on: August 31, 2015, 11:44:05 AM »
" a P47 which is a dive shoot and climb fighter"
Crap. I've been flying it wrong. No wonder I suck so bad.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #249 on: August 31, 2015, 11:47:29 AM »
Thanks, V. Everything you wrote makes sense to me. I'd only add, the 109 also ropes well, but it's just because of the stellar climb rate. I too have reservations about this tactic - since it puts a bandit on my low 6 and leaves me mushing at the top, potentially.

But, any port in a storm...

Any words of wisdom on the N1K2? I find it highly enjoyable to fly. My impressions, it's low wingloading and heavy firepower make it nimble in any kind of turn fight. It accelerates better than I expect for something so light on its wings. The only thing it seems to lack is a high top end.

Yes the 109s do rope very well, but that is all about timing and knowing your opponents E state so that you can roll over at the right time to avoid a HO. Roping is all about timing and having just enough E. Also the spiral rope climb is the method I use, instead of going straight up, which cuts the angle off for the plane on your 6 and makes them use more angle to get a shot, which makes them go slower. The Spiral rope climb also helps against planes that attempt to pick you during the rope because you are more horizontal rather than vertical and its easier to get the nose over. It takes some experience to be able to time the E states correctly and perform a spiral rope climb against a plane that is lower with lower E than you, but it is highly effective when the maneuver works right.


The Nik is a plane that takes a lot of defensive skills to be really good in. While it is a very balanced and easy plane to control, it is very slow. This limits the capabilities of the aircraft and makes it harder for people to be successful and land lots of kills with it. It is easy to get ganged in because it cant out run a crowd.

The key to being good in the Nik is to fly it about 12k. This way you can have some alt advantage while also some room to dive if you have to escape a BnZer. The goal in the Nik is to basically jump in and out of a fight from an alt advantage and gain the alt ASAP after you make your first attack. Too many people stick around inside the furball and it makes the nik easy to gang. Notice how 2cmex is very good at defending against planes on his 6, gets them to overshoot, and then pops them with those nasty cannons. This is how to be a successful defensive pilot in slower planes. Before you know it, you can take on 2-4 planes at one time. The hardest part about the nik is that you wont be able to run from trouble, so you have to learn defensive maneuvers. It is a great plane to sharpen those skills. You always have to to try to stay above the fight in a Nik because it is so slow. This plane is really not the plane to use if you are a fast BnZ type fighter because well, you wont be able to zoom away lol. The key is to take the time to be patient to climb to higher alts. The planes is great defensively if you can get 10k over your own base during a defensive attack. The plane also works great against attacking a base with a lot of low cons. Its weakness is fighting 190Ds, P51s, and So on at 11+K and trying to furball with those planes. They will just HO, and BnZ you and dive away when you roll around on their 6. You have to be quick in the low furballs, constantly watch your 6, and use the plane in the correct situation, IE. Get high over base you are defending, dive on the JaBos and bombers approaching the base. Or get high over a base you are attacking and pick off all the low furballers.

The Nik really is a great plane to learn if you want to sharpen your ACM maneuvering skills. It has a great straight up vert that destroys most planes, It has great guns to destroy planes quickly, and it is very easy to control and perform maneuvers in. It will make a you a better pilot to learn to fly it because it will help you develop defensive skills.

So Stay high about 12k, make sure you can get some E and try not to end up on the deck going 220 at the base you are attacking. Its all about SA because you have to avoid the Fast BnZers while also jumping in and getting some kills yourself.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 11:54:46 AM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #250 on: August 31, 2015, 11:49:38 AM »
" a P47 which is a dive shoot and climb fighter"
Crap. I've been flying it wrong. No wonder I suck so bad.

Heh, I mean the p47N, M, 11  can give some planes a run for their money in a 1v1 slow duel especially the N model, but you really have to know what you are doing to be very successful out maneuvering better turning planes, plus once you get low n slow with it, unlike the 109, the p47 is terrible at defending low n slow on the deck.
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Offline LilMak

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #251 on: August 31, 2015, 11:53:29 AM »
Heh, I mean the p47N, M, 11  can give some planes a run for their money in a 1v1 slow duel especially the N model, but you really have to know what you are doing to be very successful out maneuvering better turning planes, plus once you get low n slow with it, unlike the 109, the p47 is terrible at defending low n slow on the deck.
Crap! Not supposed to be low and slow either?!???!! That explains a lot.
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #252 on: August 31, 2015, 12:39:57 PM »

That said, I'm not sure why you're bringing icepac into this.


I was quite explicit in giving you a reason when I wrote: "if for no other reason than to stoke some drama."

Of course I could've PM'd you, but these Damned vs. Whomever threads seem to titillate lots of people. I'm just seeking to add entertainment value. This is all good, especially if it puts more butts in the cockpits. I refuse to make a pronouncement on whether you're the hero or villain, since this is a game, albeit an immersive and educational one.

As is, thank you for the film. I'll take a look. Your aim looks, first blush, to be enviable (wrote the guy who hits on <2% of his rounds). You had  a sort of high front quartering angle there, when you caught him on the first burst. At speed, his path is a bit more predictable than in these low-speed knife fights. It's the asymmetrical situation (low-speed target, high speed pass by the attacker) that vexes my aim consistently.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Skyyr

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #253 on: August 31, 2015, 01:04:29 PM »
...

I refuse to make a pronouncement on whether you're the hero or villain, since this is a game, albeit an immersive and educational one.

...

I prefer the term anti-hero.
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - ---

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 29-7

"Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Offline Debrody

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Re: The Strategic Dominance Gaming Theory Book of Aces High
« Reply #254 on: August 31, 2015, 01:14:39 PM »
Im a legend. In my mind.

Low n slow jugs sucks just the same as low and slow 190s.
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