Explosive rifle caliber ammo

[FLOOB]

https://www.full30.com/video/82efb579fd3c93d177205966ef3d3c9d

Breda 12.7mm HE is too weak in game! 

[Brooke]

Can I get it in 22 LR?

[Karnak]

The British .303 De Wilde was explosive.  Used by Hurries and Spits during the Battle of Britain.

[DaveBB]

A post-war study of U.S. 50 cal ammo found that only API (armor piercing incendiary) was effective at bringing down enemy aircraft.  This is because it tended to ignite the potential energy stores on enemy aircraft (ammunition, fuel, bombs, drop tanks, etc).  The balance of the other ammo had to hit a critical object (pilot, weight supporting member) to be effective.

This study is cited in "Dirty Little Secrets of World War II".

[Wiley]

A post-war study of U.S. 50 cal ammo found that only API (armor piercing incendiary) was effective at bringing down enemy aircraft.  This is because it tended to ignite the potential energy stores on enemy aircraft (ammunition, fuel, bombs, drop tanks, etc).  The balance of the other ammo had to hit a critical object (pilot, weight supporting member) to be effective.

This study is cited in "Dirty Little Secrets of World War II".

That's the kind of comment I always find fascinating.  "only API was effective" then 2 sentences later about the alternative, "had to hit a critical object to be effective".  So were they effective or not?

So... and I realize this would be nearly impossible to answer, but it makes me wonder what brought down the planes more often, secondary ignitions or critical object hits?  Come to think of it, the potential energy stores are kind of "critical objects" on their own.

Just seems to me like a comment that doesn't really say much.

Wiley.

[DaveBB]

So lets break this down so that even you can understand.  In order to bring an enemy plane down, you had to:

(1)Cause detonation of its ammo. [Only API ammo]
(2)Ignite its fuel tanks. [Only API ammo]
(3)Kill the pilot [API or ball ammo]
(4)Destroy a critical structural member. [API or ball ammo]

Of those 4 things, they are not weighted evenly.  Fuel and ammo take up a much larger portion of the plane.  The pilot is a small target.  Sawing through a wing spar or destroying all the control cables is difficult.  And anything ball ammo could do, API could do better.

I'm sure you can find the study yourself.

[bustr]

API was more effective because many liquids in airplanes were flammable. When they leaked, they made small pools in the structure cavities or left flammable traces back to their origin. You cannot ignite a fuel tank internally very easily. You can ignite traces of fuel and any vapor in the structure cavities with the incendiary component of the API round. Having an HE round with delayed fuse go off in a fuel tank did not always make a giant boom.

This DoDD report was released in 1960 from testing started in WW2. Fascinating what it takes to get a plane to burn and to actually explode a fuel tank.

 www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA800109

[Wiley]

So lets break this down so that even you can understand.  In order to bring an enemy plane down, you had to:

(1)Cause detonation of its ammo. [Only API ammo]
(2)Ignite its fuel tanks. [Only API ammo]
(3)Kill the pilot [API or ball ammo]
(4)Destroy a critical structural member. [API or ball ammo]

Of those 4 things, they are not weighted evenly.  Fuel and ammo take up a much larger portion of the plane.  The pilot is a small target.  Sawing through a wing spar or destroying all the control cables is difficult.  And anything ball ammo could do, API could do better.

I'm sure you can find the study yourself.

Easy there, no insult intended.  I would've expected the load bearing structures or control cables to be more of a factor than they apparently are, is all.  Apologies.

Wiley.

[FLOOB]

If you didn't watch the video don't post in this thread.

[FLOOB]

API was more effective

True, but more effective way does not = the only effective way, which apparently is what this study stated. I also read that most planes in wwII were downed by fire, but in AH as you know most planes are downed by dismemberment. And you're right all tracer ammo is essentially incendiary.

[Groth]

 Fascinating.
           JGroth

[bustr]

In the film they discovered without knowing what they discovered why the bullets have seemingly a delay before detonation. To allow the bullet to pass into the airframe or into a fuel tank. Hitting a pilot would be secondary to everything else. A tiny explosion in open structure cavities in many cases would be localized by the cavity space from 30cal rounds.

[Ripsnort]

Can I get it in 22 LR?

[BaldEagl]

If you hit a pilot in the head did his head catch fire?