Author Topic: first report on tonights NO-ICON event  (Read 676 times)

Offline Kieren

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2000, 10:49:00 AM »
I think it should be nightly, alternating ETO, Afrika, PTO, Eastern front. What do you guys think?

Offline DoctorYO

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2000, 11:00:00 AM »
For those having a hard time identifying aircraft use the Army's own method taught to me...

The WEFT method...


Wings: Wings

Engine:  (actually the cowling will do)

Fusalage:  Body of Aircraft

Tail:  Tail section

using this method in AH also works well with the zoom key...


Im running at 800x 600 and i can identify the aircraft very well...

just my 2 cents


Get that Events arena converted to no icon arena....


DoctoryO

Offline Rocket

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2000, 11:14:00 AM »
I had a great time last night doing this.  Even had the chance to sneak my p51 up on Udie and score a kill.  There wasn't that 100ft billboard givin me away back there.  I look forward to doing it again  
It sure makes ya sweat a little seeing a furball ahead and not knowing who is who till ya get there.

I even managed not to rip the wings off my of stang all night.  That felt good  

Hope to see ya all next time!

S!
Rocket

Offline Yeager

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2000, 11:20:00 AM »
Exciting thats for sure but.......

Extremely difficult to communicate with wingman and friendlies due to not knowing who was who.  This was like flying with a RW blindfold.

The part I was in was more like a regular main arena furball without icons.  Difficult
and frustrating.

In my opinion, HA icons would be preferrable
unless the mission is very defined and the enemy sticks to a single countries plane types.

Yeager
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline ra

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2000, 01:55:00 PM »
Yeager, let me take it one step farther: exciting but NOT more realistic.  Icons are not only necessary to tell friend from foe, but to give you a better idea of closing speeds.  While no real world pilot could tell if an enemy plane was 998 yards away or only 997 yards away, he could at least tell if the enemy was getting closer or farther away.  It is also not unreasonable to be able to ID an enemy plane from a mile away.  In the real world an F4F pilot may mis-identify a Ki-43 as a Zeke from a mile away, but he wouldn't mis-ID it for an F4F.  With no icons we go from unrealistically good SA to Mr. Magoo SA.  It can be fun, but when 'stealth' and monitor size/res become a factor in a furball, something's wrong.

The best cure for icon super SA is to have icons not show up unless the other plane itself is visible, not hidden behind part of your airframe or a hill or a hangar.  This has to be tough to code, but if it can be done it would eliminate a lot of the complaints against icons.

ra

Offline Cobra

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2000, 03:21:00 PM »
ra,
I liked Vypers post on visual cues.

A camo painted small single engine plane simply cannot be identified by plane type out at 4.5 miles.  Let alone gets its aspect, exact range, and/or rate of closure.

It IS more realistic then the icon setup we have now, for the reasons I gave above.

It is not perfect, I agree, but more realistic yes.  4.5 nm is a long way off to be able to discern all of that critical info don't you think?

I agree with not being able to see the icon if its hidden behind an airframe or something, but it would not eliminate alot of the complaints.  I think the detection range should be less, and the info be additive as the range closes.  For instance if the con is at 4k yards (2 3/4 miles) then you should get aircraft type.  Inside of say 2k yards, range info becomes available.  Inside 1k u loose range info, this would be more accurate.  The range counter inside 1k yards is like putting a laser sight on your rifle.

And finally, maybe tone down the color of the icons as well.  To me that's a good middle ground.  

Cobra


Offline ra

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2000, 04:28:00 PM »
Cobra,

Icon settings are currently way too long, maybe it's to make things easier for newbies.  And icons by their very existence are a reminder that visual realism can only be poorly simulated on a 2D monitor.  It's tough to say the words 'icons' and 'realism' in the same sentence.

That said, there's still a basic argument to be made that icons are more realistic than no icons: icons lead pilots to develop realistic  ACM tactics, no icons leads to weird gamelike tactics.

With icons on, we learn that energy management is the key to long-term success, furballing is done only for fun or as a last resort, or to seal-club some poor enemy who have squandered their E.

 With no icons speed and altitude are reduced in value, stealth suddenly becomes important.  With BnZ so difficult, furballs are the rule, and then plane color becomes a major factor.  Plane color should not be a factor in a furball.  I've never heard of a daylight furball in the real world where the aircrafts' paint jobs mattered.  

I also have to wonder how many people in the no-icon HA are leaving icons off all the time.  Turning icons on for 3 seconds could make all the difference, and I'm cynical enough to think that many people are yeilding to the temptation.  So what we have is a 'mostly no icons' HA.

One thing that does work well with no icons is a 1 v 1 between 2 P-51s.  These planes are easy to see so the lack of a range icon is not a big deal, and with only 1 opponent you don't have to worry about a ghost sneeking up on you from out of the murk below.  The most egregious problem with icons is that they are a 'shoot here' indicator during deflection shooting, flying without them is a whole new game.

ra


Offline Yeager

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2000, 06:12:00 PM »
Let me add what I forgot to mention: Friendly collisions and killshooter off were the best features to last nights event i m o.

I enjoyed the event even though I was frustrated.  It would also be nice if the arena controlled the icon settings. I was very tempted to flick those things on when my SA became crowded and haphazard under 2k.

Yeager
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline BigJim

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2000, 06:17:00 PM »
Hehehe Badger that 205 was a 190 <grin> I never flew anything but the 190 in there and was the first time I have tried the sea, what a blast (except RWY seemed to have my number LOL)

BigJim

funked

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2000, 06:21:00 PM »
 
Quote
none of this "600yard" shooting business.

Plenty of that business in the historical record.  

Offline Cobra

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« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2000, 06:45:00 PM »
Historically, where was the converngence for the weapons usually set?

I ask because:
1.) I don't know

2.) What ever that range was, would be the range that most of the fighting took place, and the range that most pilots would move into to get the kill.

3.) And historically, at or inside the convergence range is probably where most of the kills were scored.  

Does anyone have any info on the ranges where most of the fighter to fighter kills were accomplished?

Cobra

[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 05-20-2000).]

Offline Voss

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2000, 09:18:00 PM »
Everything I've ever read indicates that guns were "harmonized" for something like 300yds. Guns could be setup to converge, or group. There doesn't seem to be any record of what specific range, or harmonization technique was more common. I saw an interview on "The History Channel" of an F6F fighter pilot that stated his guns were set to converge at three different ranges, so as to give him a long "cone of effect."

 

Offline Badger

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first report on tonights NO-ICON event
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2000, 08:38:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by BigJim:
Hehehe Badger that 205 was a 190 <grin> I never flew anything but the 190 in there and was the first time I have tried the sea, what a blast (except RWY seemed to have my number LOL)

hehe...well, it just goes to show you that old guys like me wearing bifocals should have a handicap when playing with no icons.

I don't care if you were in a Cessna 172, you flew the pants off me.  <Salute>

Regards,
Bagder