Dogfight : F35 vs F16

[shift8]

If the goal is to win against opponents like Iraq or Serbia I recommend to scrap F-35, there is no need for such plane then, the teen fighters will do the job just as good.

For one, who said that?

Second, yes you do. IAD's are proliferating since they are a much cheaper option for nations that cannot afford huge fleets of Su-30s

[shift8]

Exactly, Artik.

Apparently, there are some that think every future war will like the two Gulf wars where a very, very weak (non-existent?) enemy air force allows the aggressor air force a month to work targets unopposed before the ground war begins.

It seems that no one discusses a war where the side with the F-35 is under a sudden, massive, simultaneous air and ground assault.

Yeah....I dont recall anyone claiming all future fights will have the same strategic situation as desert storm.

And second,  how exactly do you imagine this Peal Harbor doomsday scenario happening? Particularly the ground assault. Was this F-35 base placed on the front line for some retarded reason? Fact is, NO airplane does well if it finds itself under some kind of sudden surprise attack with its pants down. Just about everything gets owned when it is caught with its pants down. Last time I checked, we cannot make a surprise-proof piece of military gear.

In summary, this would be a problem at the strategic level. A problem that is no aircraft's fault, or responsibility to fix.

[Zimme83]

In order to discuss the capabilities of the F-35 the scenario should be something like a full scale conflict with China, facing J-20 and J-31 along with S-400 etc. Its an unlikely scenario but for the sake of the debate it is more interesting.

(But since we don't know the capabilities of any of the planes we are unlikely to get anywere.)

[GScholz]

No. To discuss the capabilities of the F-35 we need to compare it to the other options available to us. It is clearly the best multi-role fighter available and the only 6th gen aircraft in production anywhere. As for cost you may get three Gripen Es for the price of two F-35s. There's no doubt in my mind what aircraft I would rather have, both as a pilot and as a general. And guess what... the pilots who have first hand knowledge of the F-35 and the generals of several air forces seems to agree with me. If I were a betting man I'd say the percentages are in my favor in this debate.

[DaveBB]

If Pierre Sprey (co-designer of the F-16) says the F-35 is garbage, that is good enough for me.

[Zimme83]

No. To discuss the capabilities of the F-35 we need to compare it to the other options available to us. It is clearly the best multi-role fighter available and the only 6th gen aircraft in production anywhere. As for cost you may get three Gripen Es for the price of two F-35s. There's no doubt in my mind what aircraft I would rather have, both as a pilot and as a general. And guess what... the pilots who has first hand knowledge of the F-35 and the generals of several air forces seems to agree with me. If I were a betting man I'd say the percentages are in my favor in this debate.

Not really. your opinion is not worth anything more than anyone else's. But im not going to debate whether the F-35 or the Gripen is the Best for Norway because none of us have enough information to be able to decide that. Norway have made the decision to buy F-35 and that's fine for me.

[GScholz]

My opinion is based on the fact that the professional air force officers of ten countries, who are way more knowledgeable than anyone here, have chosen The F-35 over all the other options available to them. And every single pilot from those air forces who have flown the plane have nothing but praise for it. You see... Unlike the naysayers here, I'm not a total conspiracy nutcase.

[Zimme83]

My opinion is based on the fact that the professional air force officers of ten countries, who are way more knowledgeable than anyone here, have chosen The F-35 over all the other options available to them. And every single pilot from those air forces who have flown the plane have nothing but praise for it. You see... Unlike the naysayers here, I'm not a total conspiracy nutcase.

 

[GScholz]

If Pierre Sprey (co-designer of the F-16) says the F-35 is garbage, that is good enough for me.

It's just sad. Pierre Sprey has become an anachronism, unable to accept the fact that the world has changed, and keeps changing. He even resents how his own F-16 has developed into an excellent, but expensive multi-role fighter over the years.

[Vulcan]

Maybe we should just ask the Chinese?

China obtained more than 50 terabytes of data from U.S. defense and government networks, notably the Joint Strike Fighter’s stealth radar and engine secrets, through cyber espionage, according to newly disclosed National Security Agency documents.
A NSA briefing slide labeled “Top Secret” and headlined “Chinese Exfiltrate Sensitive Military Data,” states that the Chinese have stolen a massive amount of data from U.S. government and private contractors.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/nsa-details-chinese-cyber-theft-of-f-35-military-secrets/


You keep ignoring it (GS and shift8) but all your talk of the F-35 systems and stealth goes out the window. The chinese know the system inside out, they've probably shared the info with the russians already. My guess is they know how to detect it on radar, and they have worked on ways to shut down or jam its data links.

It's like one of those B grade movies where the bad guys flick a switch and shut down the good guys weapons systems.

[GScholz]

Yes because the F-35 will fly around with open wifi... Some of these arguments are beyond ludicrous.

[Vulcan]

Yes because the F-35 will fly around with open wifi... Some of these arguments are beyond ludicrous.

Way to oversimplify things there. You are showing your true colours when you wave away the impact of china having the plans to the F35 as not being a bad thing.

Also for a bit of a laugh...

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/222380-the-pentagons-official-f-35-bug-list-is-terrifying

[GScholz]

Western intelligence got to completely pick apart a MiG-25. Didn't make it any less of an awesome interceptor. It didn't help Lieutenant Commander Scott Speicher when he ate an R-40 launched by an Iraqi MiG-25 many years later.

Keep watching those B-movies.

[Vulcan]

Western intelligence got to completely pick apart a MiG-25. Didn't make it any less of an awesome interceptor. It didn't help Lieutenant Commander Scott Speicher when he ate an R-40 launched by an Iraqi MiG-25 many years later.

Keep watching those B-movies.

Was the Mig-25 based on top secret stealth technology and heavily reliant on digital data links?

I will keep watching those B movies, they spin better a better story than you do

Meanwhile on the Donald Cook...

[GScholz]

The digital data links are no secret. It's technology we've been using for at least 20 years. The F-35 will use tested and true existing technology to communicate with the rest of NATO, not some new vulnerable thingy that some b-grade movie hero/villain can hack with a macbook. The Chinese or any other potential adversary will no more be able to hack or jam the F-35 than they are able to hack or jam any combat aircraft currently in NATO service.

If the Chinese truly have acquired a lot of classified info on the F-35 it is unfortunate. Not because it will make the F-35 any less of a fighting machine, but because it might help the Chinese to develop similar capabilities faster.

Now please stop this ridiculous line of argumentation.