Author Topic: Dogfight : F35 vs F16  (Read 81194 times)

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #975 on: September 14, 2016, 09:25:48 PM »
The F-35's ability to guide missiles from other platforms has been put to the test:

"An F-35B just carried out a remarkable test where its sensors spotted an airborne target, sent the data to an Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense site, and had the land-based outpost fire a missile to defeat the target — thereby destroying an airborne adversary without firing a single shot of its own.

This development simultaneously vindicates two of the US military's most important developments: The F-35 and the Naval Integrated Fire Control Counterair Network (NIFC-CA)."

More here: http://www.businessinsider.com/f-35-aegis-integration-2016-9?r=US&IR=T&IR=T

So the F-35 needs to drag around an Aegis Destroyer to shoot stuff down?

Offline nrshida

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #976 on: September 15, 2016, 02:02:32 AM »
I’m here mostly for fun. :)

Apparenty nut, I mean not. Freudian slip.

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Offline Gman

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #977 on: September 15, 2016, 04:26:30 AM »
Quote
So the F-35 needs to drag around an Aegis Destroyer to shoot stuff down?

Hah!  Awesome soundbite there.

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #978 on: September 15, 2016, 06:01:37 AM »
Apparenty nut, I mean not. Freudian slip.

Lol, how so?
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #979 on: September 15, 2016, 06:11:23 AM »
Hah!  Awesome soundbite there.

Quite  ;)  However, I'm more interested in what it would mean for a group of F-35s operating together. One or two forward scouts all stealthed up, relaying target tracking data to more F-35s in "missile boat" config trailing far behind and out of reach.
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #980 on: September 15, 2016, 01:49:42 PM »
Okay, back in for a question... While I find the ability to designate a target useful, in abstract it differs little from any of the other means used across the armed forces for second party designation. I mean and for example: ground troops frequently "paint" targets for airborne weapons platforms. Why is this leveraging of the aegis touted as "special". Is it the first use of a second party designator for that system?

Second, your vision of "stand-off" F-35s as platforms for other, closer "designator" F-35s also strikes me as compelling but not unique.

You guys are pretty compulsive on this subject, hence my inability to completely vacate the thread...
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #981 on: September 15, 2016, 03:21:51 PM »
I should be a standard feature for a modern fighter to have the ability to exchange radar information with other systems, it would be a great disadvantage for the F-35 if it couldn't.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #982 on: September 17, 2016, 09:28:14 AM »
Okay, back in for a question... While I find the ability to designate a target useful, in abstract it differs little from any of the other means used across the armed forces for second party designation. I mean and for example: ground troops frequently "paint" targets for airborne weapons platforms. Why is this leveraging of the aegis touted as "special". Is it the first use of a second party designator for that system?

Second, your vision of "stand-off" F-35s as platforms for other, closer "designator" F-35s also strikes me as compelling but not unique.

You guys are pretty compulsive on this subject, hence my inability to completely vacate the thread...

It's not just "painting" a target for another platform to shoot. It is sharing the sensor data directly via data link so that every platform in the system has a common sensor picture and can use that to guide their weapons. Exactly how the system works is classified for obvious reasons, but a couple of years ago Billie Flynn gave us some insight:

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #983 on: September 17, 2016, 09:30:41 AM »
I should be a standard feature for a modern fighter to have the ability to exchange radar information with other systems, it would be a great disadvantage for the F-35 if it couldn't.

I believe Ericsson pioneered this kind of system for the Swedish armed forces.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #984 on: September 17, 2016, 01:31:18 PM »
First version were operational in the mid 80:s allowing JA-37:s to fire the Skyflash while having another JA providing radar guidance for the missile.

Gripen can use information from any land or airborne radar system to provide target data and vice versa. It's a great feature to have since a fighter can avoid using its own radar and still have all the information it need. A missile can be fired from one fighter and another fighter provides mid flight target update for the missile for ex.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #985 on: September 17, 2016, 02:27:27 PM »
I should be a standard feature for a modern fighter to have the ability to exchange radar information with other systems, it would be a great disadvantage for the F-35 if it couldn't.

It means more then that. What sensor fusion means, or will mean shortly, is that EVERY land, sea, air, space asset will have access to EVERY bit of data every other asset has world wide and a commander will actually have instant ability to assign systems for tasks using data collated by other systems. Anywhere. Any time.

Just look at every single weapons system and data gathering asset being on one grid for war fighters to not only access for a true picture of the battlefield but also use for attack or for a commander to assign a system to attack. This is some real Skynet stuff only needing the A.I. to make it work even faster. Thats why I compare it to the movie Enders Game. It may be only used initially in theater but eventually it will be capable of fighting a global war in minutes and seconds.

Think about it? "Data" is what really helped us win WW2. Data from code breaking, Intelligence, recce planes. And the quicker you got it the better.

So if a F35 runs out of ATA missiles there will be other land, sea, air assets networked into it that will be able to launch in defense of it. Or a million other possibilities because everything is going to be networked together.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #986 on: September 17, 2016, 04:01:42 PM »
I know,  just didnt bother to write a book.



And for ex Rafale has a sensor fusion system as well. So it's a must for F-35 to avoid a great disadvantage.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 04:51:00 PM by Zimme83 »
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #987 on: September 17, 2016, 05:52:39 PM »
Oh look an RF signal to guide our SA missiles in on.

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #988 on: September 17, 2016, 10:08:13 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 10:23:00 AM by Skuzzy »
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #989 on: September 18, 2016, 03:41:50 AM »
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 10:23:13 AM by Skuzzy »