Credible Force

[Big Rat]

Think we were the 88's. We were tasked with hitting 111. Taking BoB bombers to a late war party, we were expecting a rough night. We were part of a 5 squad package - 2 squads of 410's, one of 110's and one of 190D9's. That D9 squad was the lone real defensive package effectively covering 4 other squads, so no one was especially optimistic.

As it turns out, it seems the allies were being particularly polite and despite a couple of contacts on the way in that had us all thinking 'this is it', we actually made it almost to the drop effectively unmolested. Just before the drop a few Tempests made it in among us and roughed a few guys up, but most of us got bombs out and returned at least a few planes home. Five hangers down as I recall.

I've rarely been so surprised to being 3 untouched JU88s home.

 

Wooley that lone P-51 was also one of our scouts, once we figured your bombers were for 111 our scout called out your heading and target, we headed back South as to not intercept a package not meant for us. So not exactly sure why you didn't get a bigger welcoming party, unless they were busy with other aircraft already.   We did let our scout attack since he was there though, and figured one pony may draw off some of the escort to make it easier for our 111 defenders.

<S>
BigRat

[Dantoo]

Our numbers have been low last couple of frames Rufleak or you might well have had your 12 F8s.

Problem for us occurred when the escort for an Allied group (maybe for the Mossies that flew under us) decided to bounce us.  In fact I think 2 of the mossies trailed us for some miles as well.  (If so, they can't be complaining that their escort left them).
Anyway we were still 2 squares from the target zone when jumped.  We had to scatter and run with pretty much all of us having to ditch bombs and fight our way out.
We attempted to rendezvous quickly on the deck and rearm and still hit the target well within the 60 minutes.
No matter which way we turned we ran across Allied planes.  There was a brawl on the deck that involved more mossies and 51s that we flew through on our way to a nearby rearming field option. We took a passing shot as we zoomed by and headed straight for the field. It started to flash.  Beggar.

We changed to another field to rearm.  It started to flash so we pulled out and ran straight into some A20s coming by also on the deck.  We took some shots and headed to yet another field.  We loaded the bombs and on taking off a lone P47 decided he was about to have a picnic.  I shot his laugh off, poor beggar and he flew off all oily.

Desperate to get back on target we tried to head off North West still on the deck.  Moments later, jumped again by P38s and P47s who were as dangerous to each other as they were to us, what with all of them trying to get a kill without waiting turns.  Old Oily had called some friends over for lunch.  Ditching the bombs again had not helped and we soon sat in the tower after exploding.  I thought to myself, somebody out there on the Allied side is going to be guarding that blasted bridge for another hour and a half and they aren't going to even break a sweat today.

[captain1ma]

so basically dantoo, you were jumped by a group that wasn't supposed to jump you, and that screwed up the rest of the night.

[Joker312]

Jaeger that's not entirely accurate. The 412th was tasked with sweeping ahead of the bridge strike force. When we arrived at the bridge one of our guys spotted the 190F8's below him and reported it. They were in a position to interfere with our mission so we attacked them.

It wasn't apparent that they were 190F8's until we got close enough to have the icon change and at that point we were already committed.

Our squad went to great lengths to stay on mission. It was just a case of Dantoo's squad being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This is just another case where one should get all the facts before pointing a finger.

A squadmate, Kanth also brings up a good point... Dantoo's squad was the only enemy we saw at the bridge. Where was the bridge defense?
We never saw any other enemy at the target.

[waystin2]

Jaeger that's not entirely accurate. The 412th was tasked with sweeping ahead of the bridge strike force. When we arrived at the bridge one of our guys spotted the 190F8's below him and reported it. They were in a position to interfere with our mission so we attacked them.

The 412th did exactly what was asked in the orders. 

[Dantoo]

so basically dantoo, you were jumped by a group that wasn't supposed to jump you, and that screwed up the rest of the night.

I'm actually trying to say that because everything was jammed so close together, there was not only no room to get through to the target, try as we might, but we couldn't even run away and rearm without smacking into a bunch of people.

I'm in no way inferring that we didn't have a short and exciting evening, full of interesting problems to solve.  I'm just saying that there is probably a squad out there that would like to know what happened to our attack and also let the CMs know that again this week our numbers were way low, which threw the allocated numbers for the F8s in the hole.  Wasn't really the CICs fault for the numbers.

[captain1ma]

I stand corrected! food for thought for people who want smaller maps thinking that it makes it more exciting. I counted about 120 players per side, so I don't think numbers where the problem. to me it felt like people running into people they shouldn't have run into.

[Delirium]

I stand corrected! food for thought for people who want smaller maps thinking that it makes it more exciting. I counted about 120 players per side, so I don't think numbers where the problem. to me it felt like people running into people they shouldn't have run into.

Running missions that are almost scripted is a huge advantage.

If you want to continue this argument, the other thread is still available. 

[j500ss]

Running missions that are almost scripted is a huge advantage.

If you want to continue this argument, the other thread is still available. 

So your saying you could have run it better?   We specialize in unscripted, just how it is Sir.

I can assure you, we would have loved for the F-8's to have made it.

We adapted, changed tactics, then made stuff happen after T+60......... Most would have logged   

[Joker312]

I get the feeling that its more important to have everyone experience a fight. That is NOT what FSO is all about. If by chance a group runs across another group and combat is joined, then so be it.

Scripted engagements is NOT the way to go.

I have read that many sorties IRL were uneventful, realism is what we need to strive for.

[Delirium]

So your saying you could have run it better?   We specialize in unscripted, just how it is Sir.

Not what I'm saying at all, it was in reference to another thread regarding small maps being the good choice for the MA. A debate that Jeager and I had last week where I claimed a healthy MA is the place to initially draw players until they mature and take part in events.

However, now that you mention it, you gents do run scripted events. You arrange targets, and you expect them to be hit at a certain time by a credible force. That sounds scripted to me. It is one of the reasons I like scenarios much better. Sometimes you don't find any action and that is the luck of the draw.

edit: I'm not bashing FSO, people like it but I just didn't find it my cup of tea.

[Devil 505]

Not what I'm saying at all, it was in reference to another thread regarding small maps being the good choice for the MA. A debate that Jeager and I had last week where I claimed a healthy MA is the place to initially draw players until they mature and take part in events.

However, now that you mention it, you gents do run scripted events. You arrange targets, and you expect them to be hit at a certain time by a credible force. That sounds scripted to me. It is one of the reasons I like scenarios much better. Sometimes you don't find any action and that is the luck of the draw.

edit: I'm not bashing FSO, people like it but I just didn't find it my cup of tea.

FSO is no more scripted than chess.

In fact, the best setups play out like chess games. Ideally, the planes (pieces) are balanced and it all comes down to the players ability and strategy.

If you sit at a chess table across from an empty chair, you did not win.

[Delirium]

FSO is no more scripted than chess.

Yes, you are correct. Every time I play chess the rules clearly state I need to use the Queens Gambit and I cannot take attacking pawns unless I use my knights. In addition, I have to use the Kings indian attack before the 12th move of the game or it isn't considered a credible force and I can be punished for it. /sarcasm

If you sit at a chess table across from an empty chair, you did not win.

Sometimes, that can be fun, particularly if best laid plans are successful. That is the joy of events and truly recreates the fog of war.

Again, scripted FSO events can be fun, but it isn't my cup of tea. I'm not bashing the play style, it is just my opinion.

[Devil 505]

Yes, you are correct. Every time I play chess the rules clearly state I need to use the Queens Gambit and I cannot take attacking pawns unless I use my knights. In addition, I have to use the Kings indian attack before the 12th move of the game or it isn't considered a credible force and I can be punished for it. /sarcasm

Sometimes, that can be fun, particularly if best laid plans are successful. That is the joy of events and truly recreates the fog of war.

Again, scripted FSO events can be fun, but it isn't my cup of tea. I'm not bashing the play style, it is just my opinion.

You're reaching badly. The only rules governing strategy are to limit unfair gameplay. This is a game and like any game the point is to meet and best your opponent.

No contact = no game = no fun = no point.

[Delirium]

Argument made, counter argument made; let's agree to disagree.